Documentary First: Conversations on Documentary Filmmaking

Who was Charles Grodin when the cameras weren't rolling?

Most people know Charles Grodin from Midnight Run, The Heartbreak Kid or Beethoven. Far fewer know that he spent the last 20 years of his life working to get women out of prison, and visited them every week. Charles Grodin: Rebel with a Cause, the Charles Grodin documentary from James L. Freedman, tells both stories.

In Episode 288, Christian sits down with James L. Freedman, a longtime sitcom writer who came to documentary filmmaking late. A question at a party about the best job he ever had led...

What does The Velveteen Rabbit, a 1922 children's book about a stuffed toy, have to do with old home movies and AI?

In Margery Williams' classic story, an old toy called the Skin Horse tells a stuffed rabbit that being real isn't about how you are made. It is something that happens to you when you are loved for a long time. In this episode of Documentary First: The Deep Dive, Christian Taylor follows that idea from the nursery to old home movies, the scratchy 8mm reels families shot for decades, and asks what...

What happens to a family's home movies when no one knows what to do with them?

Phil Maher was a software engineer looking for a sense of purpose when he started watching his grandfather's family reels and saw his father and his brothers, a big Irish Catholic family in Chicago. He kept going. Some families sold him their reels; others gave them so their family would be remembered. "Everyone's lost to history except the few elites that make it through history and are remembered," Phil says, and he wanted to be "a steward to these people's lives,"...

Do you have a documentary, or do you have a Wikipedia entry?

Somebody decides whether your documentary gets made. Sophia Dilley is one of those people. She runs Concord Originals, the division behind Stax: Soulsville U.S.A. on HBO, and she is Co-President of RKO, which Concord bought in June 2025 along with more than 5,000 titles including King Kong, Citizen Kane and It's a Wonderful Life. In this episode she gives away the three questions she asks before her team commits to anything.

In Episode 286, Christian sits down with Sophia Dilley...

Who finishes your film if you can't?

Andre N. Jackson had never made a film. He had twenty years in technology and security, an idea that arrived while he was sitting in a barber's chair, and no way into the industry. He finished the film anyway, and he came on the show with three lessons for other filmmakers. Two more came out while we were talking.

In Episode 285, Christian sits down with first-time filmmaker Andre N. Jackson to talk about "Beyond Banners," his film about the basketball program at Gwynn Park High School in Prince...

When did your audience stop being people and become a number?

Most independent films and podcasts do not fail because the work is bad. They fail because no one ever felt like they belonged to them. This Deep Dive is about how to build an audience for your documentary before it is ever released, and the one ingredient that decides whether people stay with what you make.

In this Deep Dive on Documentary First Episode 284 with Dutch filmmaker Jonathan de Jong, host Christian Taylor takes the idea at the heart of...

How do you fund a documentary when the whole industry says no?

How do you fund a documentary without film funds, grants, or a commissioning broadcaster, and still reach a huge audience? Dutch filmmaker Jonathan de Jong did exactly that with Human Forever, the most-watched human interest documentary in Dutch cinema history. The government pulled his funding two and a half years into production, and he still finished the film, built a movement, and put it in cinemas around the world.

In Episode 284 of Documentary First, Christian Taylor sits down with Jonathan de Jong, director...

Who believed in you before you could believe in yourself?

In this Deep Dive, documentary filmmaker Christian Taylor makes a quiet case that we rarely overcome self-doubt on our own. Almost no one finishes anything hard alone. Someone has to see it in you first. This is a reflection on the power of belief, on the kind of encouragement that shows up right when you are ready to quit, and on how a few honest words can help a person keep going and change the whole outcome of a life.

What happens when a film distributor with more than 40 years in the business finally makes his own documentary?

Joe Amodei grew up in Philadelphia watching the Flyers with his parents, sisters and brothers. From the family living room, he watched the team he still calls his heroes beat the Soviet Red Army on January 11, 1976. After decades of releasing other people's documentaries, he decided it was finally time to make his own. Cold War in Philly tells the story of that game and of the players who are still Philadelphia heroes 50 years later. Joe calls it a love...

How do you make people care about your documentary?

Facts alone rarely make an audience care. The emotional core of a documentary lives somewhere else. In this episode of Documentary First, filmmaker Christian Taylor tells the story of how she found the heartbeat her film about the Battle of Carentan was missing. It was not in the archives. It was in the memories of a man who was six years old when the war came for his town.

For months, Christian’s film Heroes of Carentan felt stuck in wh...

Can thirteen letters from an 88-year-old stranger bring a dead film back to life?

For two years, Heroes of Carentan, Christian Taylor's documentary about the 101st Airborne Division and the June 1944 liberation of Carentan, sat on a shelf, half made. In this episode she tells the honest story of why a WWII documentary stalls, what it costs to keep going, and the thirteen letters from an 88-year-old man in France that finally gave the film its heartbeat back.

In Episode 281 of Documentary First, Christian Taylor takes listeners inside her...

What if the disappointment you didn't choose was the only door to the life you were meant to live?

Three generations of one family chased professional baseball, and all three lost it to a career-ending injury. Each one found his calling in the aftermath. That pattern runs through Voices: The Danny Gans Story, filmmaker Andrew Gans's documentary about his father, the Las Vegas entertainer known as the Man of Many Voices. In this Deep Dive, Christian Taylor sits with what Andrew's film, and her own family's story, reveal about...

How do you tell the truth about your own father when the whole world knew him as the Man of Many Voices?

Danny Gans could become almost anyone on stage. He was the first headliner in Las Vegas to sell a $100 ticket, and for years his shows sold out night after night. Offstage, he was living with chronic pain he kept close to his chest. When his son, Andrew Davies Gans, set out to make a film about him, he planned an inspirational story about an athlete who reinvented himself. Then he started learning things about his...

When does refusing to repeat a lie become complicity in it?

The hardest question in documentary filmmaking is not how to find the truth. It is how to handle a lie. When a false story is already loose in the world, you have two choices that look almost identical on the page: refuse to repeat it, or amplify it by debunking it. The discipline of knowing which is which can decide whether your film tells the truth or makes the lie stronger.

In this Deep Dive on Documentary First Episode 279 with Brian Pocrass, host Christian...

Was the Poltergeist curse real, or did the world get Heather O'Rourke's story wrong for 38 Years?

On February 1, 1988, Heather O'Rourke died at twelve years old. For nearly four decades the world has filled that silence with rumors. She Was Here, the new documentary produced by Brian Pocrass and directed by Nick Bailey, is the first authorized account of what actually happened, told by Heather's mother Kathleen, her sister Tammy, and the people who knew and worked with her.

In Episode 279, Christian sits down with producer Brian Pocrass to talk about how She Was Here came...

What is the difference between solitude and loneliness, and why does every creative person need to understand it?

There are two kinds of being alone in creative work, and they are not the same thing. One makes the work great. The other wears you down to nothing. The difference between solitude and loneliness is the difference between sustainable creative life and creative burnout, and most of us never learn to tell them apart.

In this Deep Dive, host Christian Taylor takes a single line from her conversation...

Adapt or die. What does that actually look like for a working filmmaker?

Chicago documentary filmmaker Armin Korsos has a working filmmaker's answer to the question every documentarian is wrestling with right now. If you're not using AI, you will be losing work to people who do. In this conversation, Armin walks through how he turned 20 hours of pre-production paperwork into 30 minutes, how he uses AI image generation to send 40 pitches in the time it used to take to send 8, and why he believes the only currency that still matters in this industry is original ideas.

What does a $1.5 billion AI lawsuit have in common with your unwritten will?

In September 2025, Anthropic agreed to pay $1.5 billion to settle the largest copyright lawsuit in U.S. history. The reason was simple. They built first and cleared rights later. Documentary filmmakers have been making the same mistake for decades. And in this Deep Dive, host Christian Taylor argues that the lesson runs deeper than music licensing or AI training data. It is the same lesson Jesus taught in Luke 14, the same lesson surgeons learn from pre-op checklists, and the same lesson Christian is living through...

What does the person who cleans up documentary licensing messes wish you had done before you shot a single frame?

Teddy Cannon has spent 10 years in what he calls the link in the production line, standing between the filmmakers, the legal team and every vendor whose footage, photos or music ends up in a film. His job is to make sure every third-party asset in a documentary is cleared before it ever lands on the editor's palette. And more than half the time, he says, he is brought in to clean up a mess.

In...

What if the documentaries no streaming platform will buy are the ones that could save your kid's life?

Today's children may be the first generation in American history to live shorter lives than their parents. That's the central argument of The 100-Year Effect, a documentary I watched at the Julian Dubuque International Film Festival the same weekend I watched two other films that turned out to be telling me the same urgent story.

In this Deep Dive on Documentary First Episode 276 with Robin Canfield, host Christian Taylor unpacks what three independent documentaries (The 100-Year Effect...

Why do documentary subjects freeze for a professional camera - but open up to an iPhone?

Robin Canfield shares why he films with iPhones, how he teaches documentary in twenty countries, and the communication skill he says every documentary filmmaker overlooks.

Robin joins us from Saigon, Vietnam, during a four-week documentary program with international students. He shares why he switched from Canon cameras to phones, how his crews rebuild story structure at 1 AM using sticky...

Someone tried to harvest Christian's voice for AI training. The pitch was polished, the project sounded real. But when she responded with ten professional questions, the conversation ended. Permanently.

In this Deep Dive on Episode 275, Christian connects that experience to her conversation with Erik and Christopher Ewers, the brothers behind the PBS documentary Henry David Thoreau. Chris Ewers argues that every technological revolution has felt like the end of the world — the Industrial Revolution, digital cameras, and now AI. Each time the tool became indispensable. Then Christian pulls in Thoreau himself — the...

Even with Ken Burns and Don Henley attached, funding a PBS documentary is brutal. So what hope do the rest of us have?

Erik and Christopher Ewers get real about PBS funding, AI’s impact on filmmaking, and how they landed George Clooney, Jeff Goldblum, Ted Danson, Tate Donovan and Meryl Streep for their new PBS documentary Henry David Thoreau.

In Part 2 of this conversation, the Ewers Brothers open up about the financial realities of documentary funding, even with Ken Burns and Don Henley attached, why Chris se...

He edited nearly every Ken Burns film since The Civil War. He still didn't know who he was.

Henry David Thoreau wrote that most people lead lives of “quiet desperation.” But what did he actually mean - and what does it look like inside a successful career?

That’s the question Christian Taylor explores in this episode of Documentary First: The Deep Dive, after her conversation with Erik and Christopher Ewers—two brothers who just directed a three-part, three-hour PBS documentary on Thoreau. The film is narrated by George Clooney, with Jeff Gol...

He's edited nearly every Ken Burns film ever made. But he couldn't edit himself.

What does it take to build a filmmaking career inside Ken Burns's world — and what happens when the hardest part isn't the craft, but learning who you are?

Erik and Christopher Ewers are brothers who co-direct for PBS under the Ken Burns banner. Erik has been Burns's senior editor for 33+ years. Chris is a DP who's shot for Apple, Coca-Cola, and Tiffany & Co. Their latest project: Henry David Thoreau, a three-part PBS documentary series executive pr...

In Bridgerton Season 4, Francesca Bridgerton stands in the middle of her husband’s funeral and says something no one expects: “I want to feel joy.”

Eighty years earlier and four thousand miles away, a D-Day veteran stood on Utah Beach watching children play in the water where his friends had died—and said something just as unexpected: “That’s why we came.”

In this episode of Documentary First: The Deep Dive, Christian Taylor connects these two moments to a discovery C.S. Lewis made in his grief journal A Grief Observed—and asks what it all means for th...

He sang the national anthem for the Colorado Avalanche a thousand times, coached 4,000 inner-city kids, lost it all, and rebuilt on the beaches of Normandy — where a WWII veteran watched children playing on Utah Beach and said through tears: "That's why we came."

Jake Schroeder—former frontman of OP Gone Bad, national anthem singer for the Colorado Avalanche, and executive director of the Denver Police Activities League—now runs the D-Day Leadership Academy, bringing inner-city youth to Normandy, France to learn leadership through the stories of World War II.

After concussions, insura...

What if failure isn’t the enemy—but the training ground?

That’s the question Christian Taylor explores in this episode of Documentary First: The Deep Dive, sparked by her conversation with filmmaker Quinnolyn Benson-Yates about the documentary Epic Bill. Bill Bradley lost his video rental empire to Netflix, went bankrupt, went through a divorce—and then rebuilt himself through extreme endurance athletics. His mantra? “Courage is a muscle.” And “Show up and suffer.”

In this deeply personal episode, Christian connects Bill’s story to her own struggles as a fil...

Award-winning filmmaker Quinnolyn Benson-Yates made her first feature documentary before film school—and its seven-year journey from short film concept to PBS distribution holds lessons every indie filmmaker needs to hear.

Epic Bill follows an endurance athlete who lost everything when his video rental empire collapsed (thanks, Netflix). Bill’s mantra—“show up and suffer”—became Quinn’s filmmaking philosophy as she navigated polar vortexes, battery failures in -50° weather, and the brutal realities of distribution. In this episode, she shares how she cut a 93-minute film down to 56 minutes for PBS, why credibility matters more than connections, an...

How do you know if you’ve found a Joe Amodei—or a predatory film distributor?

That’s the question Christian Taylor explores in this episode of Documentary First: The Deep Dive, after her conversation with Joe Amodei—filmmaker, 40-year industry veteran, and owner of Virgil Films Entertainment (Supersize Me, Restrepo, Forks Over Knives). What struck her wasn’t just what Joe said about Cat Fest 2026—it was the warmth and trust in their conversation. In her experience, that kind of rapport between filmmaker and distributor is genuinely rare.

So she...

What does it take for anyone to find your documentary once it's finally out?

Joe Amodei has released films since the days of VHS, and he says the hard part of documentary distribution now comes down to two things: alerting people that your film is out there, and giving them a reason to rent it. The print ads, TV spots and reviews in every newspaper in America are gone. In their place, he says, are podcasts, blogs and filmmakers who build their own audience. In this conversation, recorded the day the 2026 Oscar nominations came out, he gives...

Imagine standing in an ancient Egyptian tomb, camera in hand, as a sarcophagus is opened for the first time in thousands of years. For filmmaker Jeffrey Roth, that moment sparked a realization: "No, this is real."

This is the first-ever episode of Documentary First: The Deep Dive—a new companion series where Christian Taylor takes one insight from recent podcast conversations, explores it deeply, and connects it to the universal experience of creative work.

In this episode, Christian unpacks why "mountaintop moments"—the ones you've worked years to reach—often feel completely different than you expect...

“People are going to watch your movie for such an infinitesimally small percentage of their life. What they’re going to do is remember it.”

That insight from Emmy-winning editor Charles Olivier—who’s cut The Jinx, The Redeem Team, and George Clooney’s Surviving Ohio State—stopped Christian Taylor cold. It cuts right to the heart of documentary filmmaking: your audience will forget most of your film. The question is whether you’ve given them something worth remembering.

In this episode of Documentary First: The Deep Dive, C...

Emmy-winning editor Charles Olivier reveals how he restructured HBO's Surviving Ohio State and what it's like getting notes from George Clooney.

Charles has cut some of the biggest docs of the last decade—The Jinx, Magic and Bird, The Redeem Team. Surviving Ohio State, produced by Clooney and directed by Oscar winner Eva Orner, exposes decades of abuse in college athletics. In this episode, Charles breaks down how he pitched a new vision to the production team, why he structures documentaries like symphonies instead of three-act narratives, and his ad...

Jeffrey Roth has spent his career letting extraordinary people tell their own stories—Apollo astronauts, President George H.W. Bush, and now Dr. Zahi Hawass. In this episode, Christian Taylor inquires about the logistics of independent documentary filmmaking in Egypt: working with fixers, navigating permits, shooting in ancient tombs with one hour of access, and why he withholds narration. Plus: the personal moments that make his films unforgettable.

Links:

Trailer- The Man with the Hat - Official Trailer

The Man with the Hat

instagram.com/themanwiththehatmovie

Tiktok: @themanwiththehatmovie

In this episode of Documentary First, host Christian Taylor sits down with filmmaker Peter Kelly to explore his remarkable journey from his Mississippi roots to documenting the rich cultural and maritime history of Salt Cay in the Turks and Caicos. Peter reflects on how growing up in a small Mississippi community shaped his storytelling sensibilities, his love of history, and the creative instincts that now guide his work.

The conversation dives into the realities of filming in a remote island location—limited resources, environmental challenges, and the unexpected surprises that come with working far off the grid. Pe...

In this episode of Documentary First, host Christian Taylor interviews acclaimed documentary filmmaker, writer, photographer, and cultural documentarian Alan Govenar—a storyteller with a 44-year career devoted to preserving overlooked American lives and histories.

The conversation centers on Govenar’s powerful film Quiet Voices in a Noisy World, which examines the struggle for change in Jasper, Texas, and the long shadow of racial violence on a community searching for truth, healing, and forward movement.

Govenaris the president of Documentary Arts, a nonprofit media production company. He and Christian explore what it means to document communities with...

Susan Lacy—the iconic creator of PBS’s American Masters and one of the most influential voices in biographical documentary filmmaking joins us. From her early roots in journalism to building a landmark series that reshaped cultural storytelling on public television, Lacy shares the real behind-the-scenes truth of what it took to launch American Masters, fight for ambitious filmmaking, and evolve from producer to director.

Together, Christian and Susan dig into what makes a documentary last: deep research, emotional access, trust with subjects, and interviews that go beyond “good questions” to uncover the soul of a story. Lacy als...

Why would an oat milk company pay for a documentary that makes dairy farmers the heroes?

The Price of Milk follows the money behind the 1990s Got Milk campaign, and its heroes are small family dairy farmers like Joe and Brenda Cochran. Directed by Nick Bruckman and Yoni Brook, the four-part investigative series looks at the USDA checkoff programs behind generic ads like Got Milk, and argues that small dairy farmers end up paying for them. What their research found, Nick says, is that these programs are "basically robbing America's small farmers blind and transferring that money...

In this episode of Documentary First, Christian sits down with filmmaker Jessica Levin, co-director and producer of the Critics Choice Documentary Awards in the Best Music Documentary-nominated HBO documentary Billy Joel: And So It Goes. Jessica shares what it was like to tell the story of Billy Joel—not just as a legendary musician, but as a human being full of depth, contradiction, humor, and heart.

Together, they explore the craft of music documentary filmmaking: how to build trust during intimate interviews, how to follow emotional truth rather than timeline, and how music itself can become the sp...