The Unexpected Lever

Can AI make us more human in how we go to market?

In this episode, Jarod Greene sits down with Lucas Welch, VP of Corporate Marketing at Highspot, for a conversation about authenticity, AI, and the power of personal connection in modern marketing.

Lucas shares how AI isn’t replacing relationships but encouraging deeper ones, especially when go-to-market teams build experiences that reflect what people actually care about. He walks through how his team uses tools like intent data and Mentimeter to shape events that feel personal, not prescriptive.

Tune in to ge...

How do you scale a team without scaling headcount? And why are some companies still slow to adopt AI despite clear advantages?

In this episode, Vivun CEO Matt Darrow sits down with CMO and fellow podcast host Jarod Greene to discuss how marketing and sales teams can operate at a higher level using AI without losing the human element.

They share how a five-person marketing team can outperform teams four times its size, what gets in the way of broader AI adoption, and why the best enablement isn’t more training, but less friction. 

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Is the traditional sales model evolving with the rise of SEs?

In this episode, Jarod Greene sits down with Michelle Afshar, Global Head of Enablement at Darktrace, to unfold the shifting dynamics within B2B sales teams, focusing on the increasing importance of SEs.

Michelle explains why the future of sales belongs to sales engineers, emphasizing the need for sellers to be more technical. She argues that aligning SEs and AEs is essential for closing deals in today’s tech-driven landscape. 

Tune in to learn why modern sales roles are evolving.

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Are you using AI correctly for market research?

In this episode of V5, Jarod Greene sits down with Claudia Natasia, CEO of Riley AI, to discuss the evolving role of AI in customer insights.

Claudia breaks down how AI is transforming market research, but she’s quick to caution against a plug-and-play approach. Off-the-shelf tools or LLMs alone won’t cut it if you want a real edge. She shares why blending proprietary data with AI is the key to unlocking insights your competitors will miss. With Riley’s innovative approach, they're helping businesses uncove...

Is the CRO role changing to meet modern sales demands?

In this episode, Jarod Greene connects with Kelly Lewis of  B2B Go-To-Market Strategy, to discuss the ever-evolving nature of the CRO role and B2B selling teams in general.

Kelly explains why today’s CROs need more than just sales skills. They have to master strategy, operations and even AI to lead teams effectively and scale success. She also predicts a rise in CRO educational programs to meet these needs.

Listen to learn how sales leaders can evolve into CROs and adapt to...

Is brand the last real differentiator?

In this episode of V5, Jarod Greene talks with Margaret Kelsey, CMO of Kodaris, about the shifting landscape of B2B marketing.

Margaret argues that software has become a commodity—AI has made it easier than ever to build and replicate products. Yet many companies still rely on outdated go-to-market strategies instead of investing in brand and creative distribution. She explains why personal brands, employee advocacy, and strong cultural alignment are the key to standing out in a crowded market.

In this episode, you’ll learn:

What actually is an AI agent vs. a personal productivity tool? And how do you navigate the vast vendor landscape? 

AI is changing the sales game, but are leaders truly harnessing its potential? In this episode, Vivun CEO Matt Darrow and CRO Trevor Jett break down what sales leaders need to know about AI agents.

From cutting through vendor noise to understanding the real impact on sales productivity, they bring clarity to an often-misunderstood topic. With firsthand insights from scaling high-performing teams, they explore how AI can democratize expertise, not replace sales roles.

Are sales engineers too focused on features instead of what customers really need?

In this episode, Jarod Greene connects with Tom Josephson, Senior Director of Solution Consulting at TCP Software, to explore the power of discovery in building solid relationships with buyers.

Tom explains why curiosity is a superpower for SEs, how the right questions reveal real customer needs, and why great SEs show less, not more.

This episode gets into how SEs can shift their approach from demonstrating technical prowess to being strategic partners who understand the customer's goals.

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Are sales engineers relying too much on technical expertise and missing what truly drives customer decisions?

In this special V15 episode, Jarod Greene sits down with Marjorie Abdelkrime, Head of US West and Healthcare Solutions at VMware by Broadcom, to explore what separates great SEs from those who get stuck. Marjorie shares why curiosity is the most critical trait for success, how Sales Engineers can build trust by admitting what they don’t know, and why AI-powered demos provide an opportunity to elevate the human element in technical sales. She unpacks the evolution of the SE role, fr...

Are sales teams too focused on flashy demos and missing what really matters to customers?

In this episode of V5, Jarod Greene welcomes Jeff Margolese, SVP of Global Solution Consulting at ServiceNow, to break down one of the biggest challenges in B2B SaaS: showing real customer value. Jeff shares why sales teams often get caught up in showcasing features without connecting them to business impact—and how to fix it. He explains the power of storytelling, why ‘before and after’ framing is crucial, and how differentiation is more important than ever in a crowded AI market.

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Is AI security keeping up?

Agentic AI is poised to transform B2B, but will security concerns block its potential? In this episode of The Unexpected Lever, Vivun CEO Matt Darrow sits down with security leaders Jamie Brown and Jessica Siclari to separate fact from fear in AI Agent security.

From navigating the evolving threat and regulatory landscape to designing a framework for AI vendor evaluations, they cut through the hype and provide a practical lens into how businesses can embrace AI Agents without compromising security.

In this episode, you’ll learn:

Is an AI Sales Engineer the key to faster presales onboarding and smarter sellers?

In this episode of V5, Jarod Greene sits down with Toby Penn, an experienced global presales leader, to explore how AI agents are transforming sales engineering. Toby shares how AI, specifically Vivun’s AI Sales Engineer, Ava, is helping presales teams ramp faster, stay ahead of process changes, and focus on high-value tasks. He discusses the role of AI in simplifying sales enablement, fielding complex technical questions, and even empowering Account Executives with better decision-making. 

From scaling SE expertise to improving sal...

Are marketing channels dead?

In this episode of The Unexpected Lever, Jarod Greene sits down with Mark Kilens, CEO and Co-Founder of TACK, to challenge a long-held belief in B2B marketing. 

Mark argues that traditional channels—email, paid ads, and SEO—are losing effectiveness while networks are becoming the real drivers of growth. He breaks down the shift from channels to networks and why companies need to rethink their marketing strategy. From building a network map to understanding the power of trust, this conversation explores a new way to connect with buyers.

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Is the traditional SaaS sales model holding us back?

In this episode, Jarod Greene welcomes back Bill Balnave, Vice President of Technical Services of Mezmo, to explore how outdated sales processes are creating unnecessary friction for buyers and sellers alike. Bill shares why software should sell itself and how empowering buyers with the right tools and information can revolutionize the industry. From the evolving role of SDRs to cutting out red tape in SaaS deals, this conversation dives into bold ideas for a frictionless future.

In this episode, you’ll learn:

What if your tools worked like your best teammate?

In this episode, Vivun CEO Matt Darrow talks with Vivun’s Lead AI Product Designer, Stephany Cardet, about what goes into designing AI Sales Assistants that don’t just follow your lead—they help you stay ahead.

Stephany shares how Vivun’s tool Ava takes the guesswork out of the process—anticipating next steps, simplifying complex tasks, and making collaboration natural. 

Learn how smarter design can help you do your best work, every time.

In this episode, you’ll learn:

Are individual quotas the secret to SE-Sales team synergy??

In this episode, Jarod Greene sits down with Nicole Kawamoto, Director of Solutions Engineering from ServiceTitan, to explore how a shift in quota strategy can transform team dynamics and drive performance. Nicole shares why she moved her Solutions Engineering team to a hybrid quota model, the surprising impact it had on morale, and how it aligns SEs and AEs to crush sales goals together. 

In this episode, you’ll learn:

Are solution consultants the key to bridging the gap between pre-sales and post-sales success?

In this episode, Jarod Greene sits down with Dave Greene, Regional Vice President of Solution Consulting at Gainsight, to unpack why the days of multi-product generalists are fading fast. Dave explains why buyers demand deeper expertise from SCs and how specialization is driving better outcomes for both customers and teams.

In this episode, you’ll learn:

Is AI about to blur the lines between human and machine interactions?

In this episode, Jarod Greene chats with Russell Witham from Vivun, to unpack how AI is reshaping your interactions with vendors and customers. From near-human digital assistants to AI systems that can tackle the unexpected, Russell shares his take on why the next few years could redefine the way we work and communicate.

In this episode, you’ll learn:

Is the role of the Sales Engineer or Solution Consultant evolving faster than we can keep up with?

In this episode, Jarod Greene sits down with Dave Schultz, Head of Solution Consulting at Employ, to explore how flexibility and adaptability are transforming the SE role. From navigating unpredictable buyer behavior to leading with empathy in new leadership roles, Dave shares his insights on building agile teams and creating impactful strategies that align with the shifting needs of modern B2B sales.

In this episode, you’ll learn:

Is your team ready to tackle the next year head-on?

In this episode, Jarod Greene sits down with Julia Lustig, Head of Sales Engineering for Southern Europe at Seismic, to discuss what sales teams need to be thinking about. With budgets tighter than ever, Julia shares how to make data-informed decisions, foster collaboration, and stay flexible while maintaining focus. 

You’ll discover why small, intentional changes can drive big results and how aligning your team around a shared mission sets the stage for success.

In this epi...

AI isn’t taking your job—but the SE who knows how to use it, might.

In this episode, Vivun CEO Matt Darrow talks to Senior Sales Engineer Taylor Bukowski about the evolving role of AI in sales engineering.

As an early adopter of generative AI and Vivun’s AI Sales Engineer in particular, Taylor shares her firsthand experience using it to level up her workflow, career, and customers’ experiences. All without replacing the human touch that makes SEs irreplaceable.

Tune in to learn how to use AI not as a replacement but as a par...

Is prompt engineering really a skill you need to master?

In this episode, Jarod Greene chats with Kyle Coleman, CMO of Copy.ai, to break down the hype around prompt engineering and uncover how AI can deliver real value to sales and marketing teams. Kyle shares why teaching your team to write perfect prompts might be a waste of time and how the best AI solutions simplify the process for seamless integration.

In this episode, you’ll learn:

Is career progression in tech more accessible than we think?

In this episode,  Jarod Greene chats with Marjorie Abdelkrime, Head of US West and Healthcare Solutions at Broadcom, to unpack the many pathways into the Sales Engineering career. From breaking into the field to thriving in a highly technical industry, Marjorie shares her unconventional journey and offers practical advice for leveling up your SE career.

In this episode, you’ll learn:

Building a new sales motion from scratch—where do you start? 

In this episode, Jarod Greene sits down with Zach Miller, CRO of VanillaSoft, about the real challenges of creating an enterprise sales strategy without disrupting a successful SMB pipeline. Zach shares the hurdles of transitioning to long-cycle, multi-stage deals and the importance of surrounding yourself with the right team.

In this episode, you’ll learn:

Most AI knows how to respond—but does it know how to solve real SE problems?

In this episode, CEO Matt Darrow sits down with Vivun’s Sr. Machine Learning Engineer, Chen Liang, to explore why most AI just isn’t cut out for sales engineering—yet.

While language models like ChatGPT are powerful, they lack the insider knowledge and finesse that make sales engineers irreplaceable. Matt and Chen dive into Vivun’s unique approach to building AI agents that don’t just predict answers but deliver reliable, actionable insights grounded in real-world experience.

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Is the future of inbound sales powered by AI SDRs?

In this episode, Jarod Greene sits down with Blue Bowen, Research Principal at G2, to explore the game-changing role of AI SDRs in inbound lead management. AI is reshaping the buyer experience, and if companies shift focus to inbound leads, it can provide immediate wins. Tune in to learn how companies can leverage AI tools to drive more meaningful connections with potential customers.

In this episode, you’ll learn:

Is hiding your pricing costing you more than you realize?

In this episode, Jarod Greene sits down with Mark Huber, VP of Marketing at UserEvidence, as he shares his candid thoughts on the frustration of hidden pricing in B2B SaaS. He unpacks why transparent pricing is needed to build trust with buyers and how outdated sales tactics waste time for both teams and customers.

In this episode, you’ll learn:

ChatGPT may excel in conversation, but it’s not equipped to tackle the complex challenges that sales engineers face.

In this episode, CEO Matt Darrow speaks with Vivun’s Product & AI Leader, Russell Witham, about the criteria for AI that actually “gets” sales engineering. 

Most existing models fail to appreciate the complexity and true value of SE work, resulting in outputs that fall short of what great sales engineers produce. 

Tune in to discover a new, innovative approach to empowering sales engineers with AI that understands them. 

In this episode, you’ll learn:

Time is a critical factor in B2B sales success.

In this episode, Jarod Greene sits down with Kyle Smith, Managing Partner at The Bridge Group, to discuss the impact of direct alignment between sales engineers and account executives on customer experiences. Kyle shares his insights from the Sales perspective on how avoiding pooled resources can lead to smoother interactions and stronger client relationships.

In this episode, you’ll learn:

Are we truly listening to our buyers?

In this episode, Jarod Greene sits down with Natalie Marcotullio, Head of Growth  and Operations at Navattic, as she shares about the pitfalls of traditional sales approaches, the importance of empowering buyers with the information they need, and how shifting our mindset can lead to stronger, more effective sales relationships.

In this episode, you’ll learn:

AI is transforming the way PreSales teams operate. 

In this episode, Jarod Greene sits down with Leah McTiernan, Global Vice President of PreSales at Docusign, as she shares her perspective on how AI is streamlining workflows, boosting team morale, and enabling more meaningful, strategic work. Learn how AI is enhancing the PreSales role to build stronger customer relationships and deliver greater value.

In this episode, you’ll learn:

Time is the most valuable commodity for pre-sales teams. 

In this episode, Jarod Greene sits down with David Yockelson, Distinguished Vice President and Gartner Fellow, as he shares his insights on how driving efficiency in collaborative efforts with account executives can lead to more effective business cases and stronger customer relationships.

In this episode, you’ll learn:

Is discovery or demos the secret weapon in sales?

In this episode of V5, host Jarod Greene chats with Tom Josephson, Director of Solution Consulting at TCP Software, about a controversial take: demos aren’t as crucial as everyone believes. Find out how mastering discovery can lead to deeper customer connections and more successful deals.

In this episode, you’ll learn:

How can tapping into your team's strengths transform sales engineering, boost win rates, and forge stronger customer connections?

In this episode, Jarod Greene, host of V5, and Deirdre Sommerkamp, Chief Solutions Officer at Skillibrium, discuss the benefits of assigning SEs based on their specific skills for different stages of the sales cycle. 

In this episode, you’ll learn:

How is AI transforming the role of sales engineers, and what does this mean for the future of B2B revenue streams?

In this episode, Matt Darrow, CEO and Co-founder of Vivun, and Joseph Miller, Co-founder and Chief Data Scientist at Vivun,  share how AI will affect sales engineering teams. They explore concepts like the integration of top-down and bottom-up approaches and how AI technologies are fundamentally altering the nature of labor in B2B sales. You’ll also learn the critical skills sales engineers need to have to stay competitive in an increasingly AI...

What’s the real secret to sales success? It’s all in the pre-sale. 

On The Unexpected Lever, we’re diving deep into what happens before the deal closes and why it’s more than just demo automation. It’s about understanding real problems and providing meaningful solutions. Brought to you by Vivun, this show celebrates the unsung heroes—sales engineers—who drive revenue growth by connecting with clients, solving challenges, and delivering results.

Whether you're aiming for stronger revenue, higher retention, or shorter sales cycles, remember: the pre-work makes the dream...