Animal Behavior Conversations: The Podcast of The ABMA

This episode was a live panel recording at the 2025 ABMA annual conference in Galveston Texas hosted by Moody Gardens.  The expert panel consisted of Tim Sullivan - Brookfield Zoo, Elly Neumann - Jerusalem Zoo, Nicki Boyd- San Diego Zoo, Anaka Nazareth - National Aquarium, and Chris Jenkins - Natural Encounters Inc.  The panel’s theme was “The Importance of Behavior in Modern Animal Care” with questions submitted in real time from the conference attendees. The panel discussed a wide range of topics ranging from the growth of the role behavior plays in welfare to the evolution and next steps in enric...

This episode Steve Martin, President and CEO of Natural Encounters, Inc., discusses training on a continuum by moving away from coercion and towards genuine choice. Steve starts the episode by giving a review of the concepts of choice and… control with some practical examples.  The discussion then turns to breaking down behavioral degrees of freedom, genuine choice, and coercion with many more great practical examples. The episode ends with Steve outlining that real-world animal training requires us to train on the continuum but always striving towards providing genuine choice in order to enhance an animal’s welfare.  Stay tuned in for...

This episode Mel Paynter and Alyse Stitt, Georgia Aquarium, discuss motivation in the context of animal behavior and training.  In part 1 of this two episode discussion Mel and Alyse discuss what motivation is, what it looks like in practice, and give some o-fish-ally great examples from the many aquatic species that they work with in the Ocean Voyager habitat at the Georgia Aquarium.  They both dive deeper into breaking down and discussing some of the numerous stimuli and events that can affect motivation.   The discussion finishes with their advice on how to productively and effectively use motivation as a too...

This episode Shane Gorbett, Philadelphia Zoo and host of the podcast, discusses and breaks down fading. Shane first discusses examples of what fading looks like in practice and how we can apply the artful application of the science of behavior change in order to know when and how to fade.  Shane also discusses the challenges of fading too quickly, too slowly, or not at all.  Stay tuned in for Shane’s "Training Tale" about Nile crocodile crate training and the importance of paying attention to the communication that we provide to animals.  Visit www.theabma.org for more information and f...

This episode Tricia Dees, the second vice president of the ABMA, continues on with the discussion from Episode 59 and goes deeper into primary/unconditioned and secondary/conditioned reinforcers.  Tricia gives some common examples of primary/unconditioned and secondary/conditioned reinforcers but also talks about how individual preference plays a role in determining what is actually a reinforcer for each individual.  The discussion then turns to why and how we can condition a reinforcer and the importance of watching the animal’s behavior to ensure that a conditioned reinforcer maintains its effectiveness. Stay tuned in for Tricia’s “Training Tale” about how...

Welcome back for the first episode of 2025!  This episode Shawna Spencer, Coral World Ocean Park, dives deeper into breaking down reinforcers and punishers.  This episode is full of examples and practical applications.  Shawna starts with a brief introduction to primary and secondary reinforcers before listing examples of common reinforcers and punishers.  The episode finishes with a discussion about how reinforcers can change over time and how to tell if something is no longer a reinforcer for an animal.  Stay tuned in for Shawna’s two doggone great “Training Tales”, one featuring dog training in German.  You can also learn more informa...

This episode Jose Bello, Disney’s Animals, Science and Environment, discusses superstitious behavior. Jose starts with breaking down what it means for a behavior to be superstitious and examples of what that looks like in a practical application.  Next, Jose educates about the “potential danger” in labeling behaviors as superstitious and how taking the blame away from the animal and placing it on us as the trainers, can give us a better understanding of what is accidentally reinforcing or punishing a superstitious behavior. The episode ends with a discussion and a reminder that all behavior has function and how that mi...

In a special ABMA Behavior Month 2024 episode, Jonelle Mason, California National Primate Research Center - UC Davis, discusses training and behavior in a research setting. Jonelle educates about the similarities and differences between training, cooperative care, and enrichment programs in a zoo compared to a research setting. Additionally, Jonelle talks about some of the unique challenges that arise and the future of behavior management within a research setting. Stay tuned in for Jonelle's "Training Tale" about training her pet corn snake to help with a regurgitation issue. For questions or suggestions about the podcast email abc@theabma.org and...

This episode Sam Meinke, Palm Beach Zoo, and podcast host, Shane Gorbett, discusses what it means to be a modern zookeeper. The definition of what a zookeeper is and does has drastically changed and is constantly evolving as we continue to progress animal care forward. Some other modern zookeepers were kind enough to share what being a modern zookeeper means to them so Sam and Shane dissect those answers as we redefine what it means to be a zookeeper. The discussion wraps up with the importance of redefining what a modern zookeeper is and does both for the knowledge...

This episode Rick Hester, Cheyenne Mountain Zoo and BehaviorWorks, discusses a free operant approach to behavior management. Rick starts with explaining the practical application of free operant behavior and, in order to get the full scope, also discusses discrete trial training and the relationship between the two. Breaking down some of the science, Rick educates about Lindsley's (1996) Four Free Operant Freedoms and the considerations for providing and maintaining a free operant environment (depletion, satiation, and dosage of resources). Rick finishes the episode with giving advice on how to start curating free operant environments by celebrating each approximation. Stay tuned...

This episode continues on "The Behaviors of..." series which dives into the human side of the animal care field. In this episode Scott Trauger, Natural Encounters, Inc., dives deeper into a discussion centered around his presentation at the 2024 ABMA Annual Conference titled "Expanding Our Feedback Loop: Evolving the Way that We Give Feedback to Our Peers". Scott discusses the different types of feedback and considerations to think about in order to effectively give specific and honest, but also kind, feedback. Scott also discusses the thought of also giving choice and... control to people while providing feedback. Stay tuned in...

This episode we are joined by Tegan Noel, San Diego Zoo Wildlife Alliance, to discuss some practical applications and examples of providing choice and... control. This episode is a continuation of Episode 50 where Ken Ramirez broke down the science of choice and... control. The episode starts with Tegan commenting how the focus of those two topics have changed and shaped behavior in recent years. Additionally, she educates about what it means to remove "forced" choice and providing control through the use of encouraging animals to say now. Tegan gives thoughtful examples of providing choice and... control and why it...

This episode we are joined once again by Chris Jenkins of Natural Encounters, Inc. in order to dive deeper into Antecedents, specially looking at Distant Antecedents and navigating the role they play in behavior.  This episode is a continuation of Episode 6 where Chris broke down the fundamentals of Antecedents. The episode starts with defining the difference between immediate and distant antecedents and then shifts to the slippery slope that is labeling behavior using distant antecedents as the reason. Chris educates about how behavior is influenced by a myriad of environmental conditions and gives advice on how to take away t...

This episode continues on "The Behaviors of..." series which dives into the human side of the animal care field. In this episode Justin Garner, Committee Chair for The ABMA, helps to give advice on how to successfully implement change. The discussion begins with ideas and advice on communicating ideas to others and how to then put those ideas into action. Justin and Shane also talk through ideas to overcome some of the common "roadblocks" to successfully implementing change including not enough time, we've always done it this way, and a lack of resources. Stay tuned in for a "Training...

For the 50th episode of the podcast, special guest Ken Ramirez, Karen Pryor Clicker Training breaks down what it means to provide animals with choice and... control. Ken discuss why these terms have often been connected and how to ensure that we are providing both for animals. Ken also speaks to the importance of training in a modern animal setting and how it can be used to help animals get to the "yes" behavior in order to provide control. This episode is filled with practical examples that can provide clarity and help to focus these topics into welfare discussions. Stay...

This episode Sandy Jabas, The First VP of The ABMA, discusses what it means for a behavior to be under stimulus control. Sandy educates about how to tell if a behavior is under stimulus control and also the importance of stimulus control in our training. Sandy also teases the 2025 ABMA Annual Conference in Galveston, Texas hosted by Moody Gardens! Stay tuned in for three "Training Tales" about a funny mishap when shifting dolphins, a dolphin tail fluke splash gone wrong, and interesting research about dolphin dive reflex. For questions or suggestions about the podcast email abc@theabma.org and...

This episode, through daily live recordings, features a recap of the 2024 ABMA annual conference (April 15-19 2024) hosted by the Nashville Zoo. Each day of the conference, one of the presenters for the day discusses their presentation and other learning that impacted them. 

Day 1: Benjamin Fainsod, Jerusalem Zoo & The Animal Behavior Community (carnivores@jerusalemzoo.org)

Day 2: Dr. Cathy Mingee, North Carolina Zoo (cathy.mingee@nczoo.org)

Day 3: Cam Luna, Nashville Zoo (cluna@nashvillezoo.org)

Day 4: Chandelle Cotter, Bird Treatment and Learning Center (chandelle_cotter@birdtlc.org)

If you are an A...

This episode Tim Sullivan, Brookfield Zoo Chicago and one of the founders of The ABMA, discusses how to use behavioral goals to provide purposeful lives to animals. Tim starts by giving a little history to the founding of The ABMA and then jumps into discussing why behavior is an all encompassing word. If you were at the 2024 ABMA annual conference in Nashville or if you are an ABMA member and watch Tim's environmental enrichment workshop on animalprofessional.com, this podcast episode is a great companion to his presentation. Tim educates about shifting our mindset in order to provide purposeful...

This episode Sarah van Herpt, Animals Asia - Vietnam, discusses relationship and trust building with animals who previously lived in adverse and traumatic environments. Animals Asia rescues bears from the bear bile industry so Sarah is able to give practical examples of how they help the rescued bears move from trauma to trust. Sarah educates about desensitization and different techniques used to build trust such as temporarily using negative reinforcement with animals where the best reinforcer is distance and space. Sarah also talks about how to build trust back quickly after a situation that may require some of that...

This episode is a collaboration with AAZK (American Association of Zoo Keepers) for their "Spotlight on Aquariums Week". The guests for this episode are Sarah Snider-Keys from the Board of Directors of AAZK and Sarah (SK) Ivkovich from The Dolphin Research Center (DRC) as they discuss behavior management in an aquatic setting. Sarah and SK discuss some of the differences and challenges of working with purely aquatic species and some of the creative solutions and successes that come from an aquatic setting. This episode also touches on when and how to start training baby animals and training animals in...

This episode Cassie Malina, Awesome Animal Solutions, discusses a topic that has been requested by multiple listeners: How to start a behavior program! Cassie starts by detailing what a behavior program could entail, where to start, and how to approach leadership and your team about the process. Cassie also discusses all of the benefits of starting a behavior program to both animal and human wellness. Stay tuned in for two "Training Tales" from Cassie! The first involves a crowned crane learning the importance of an elevator and the second is a unique way in which a hyacinth macaw learned...

This episode Heather Samper, Moody Gardens and “All Things ABMA”, discusses the importance of body language while training. The first part of the episode focuses on learning to read an animal learner’s body language, how to implement that into your sessions, and the benefits of being a keen listener of body language.  The second portion of the episode focuses on why it is so vital for us as trainers to be cognizant of our own body language.  Stay tuned in for two "Training Tales" from Heather! The first is a hilarious story involving a coati and Russian secret service...

This episode Kelli Meyers, ZooTampa at Lowry Park, discusses The 10 Modern Principles of Shaping as created by Karen Pryor and how they have evolved from "The 10 Laws of Shaping". Kelli breaks down each principle and gives advice on how to best implement and think about each of the principles. The 10 principles can be found below in the timestamps for this episode. Stay tuned in for Kelli's "Training Tale" about how she had to get really creative with her body positioning (hint: it included floating in the middle of the habitat) to help teach a sea lion a "clapping" behavior...

This episode Esther Verhoeven discusses the human perception of animal intelligence (both from the point of view of an animal care professional and a guest) and how that effects behavior. The conversation starts with Esther discussing how behaviorists should view animal intelligence so that it doesn't create excuses or affect the way we manage the animals in our care. Esther finishes the discussion by commenting on educating guests about animal intelligence and the importance of the language that we use when talking to and about animals. Stay tuned in for Esther's "Training Tale" as she dives into discussing how...

This episode Gabby Harris, uShake Sea World, discusses an article that she wrote for "Engage", the quarterly behavior publication of The ABMA. The article is titled "Welfare Considerations for Behavior Management of Animals in Human-Care: The Role of Self Regulation”. Gabby educates about why self-regulation can affect an animal's wellbeing and how we can provide opportunities for self-regulation to animals. Stay tuned in for two "Training Tales" each focusing on learning moments with dolphins! For questions or suggestions about the podcast email abc@theabma.org and to contact Gabby email gabby@seaworld.org.za or visit her website: www.to...

This episode Kyle Banton-Jones, Wild Enrichment, discusses the importance of focusing on the individual vs the group or species in regards to behavioral husbandry. This episode was recorded in collaboration with Kyle's podcast and is a compliment to episode 53 of the Wild Enrichment Podcast, so be sure to check out here: https://wildenrichment.podbean.com In continuation from that episode, Kyle talks about the evolution of enrichment and advancing behavioral husbandry of under-represented species. Additionally, Kyle discusses an article that he wrote, "Behavioral Husbandry for the Individual", and gives considerations for focusing on both the species/group while also...

This episode Dani Larson, Southwick's Zoo, discusses prompts and how they provide additional information to animal learners. Dani gives great examples of prompts and discusses the difference between a prompt and a discriminative stimulus. Additionally, Dani educates about the importance of fading prompts, but also how to utilize prompts when a behavior breakdown. Stay tuned in for a wild "Training Tale" about how Dani used a soup spoon to teach her dog "Paw". For questions or suggestions about the podcast email abc@theabma.org and to reach Dani contact her on Instagram, @danipoirier, or email dani@southwickszoo.com Let's t...

This episode Meghan Holst, one of the co-founders of MIAZS (Minorities in Aquarium and Zoo Science), adds another addition to "The Behaviors of..." series by discussing the behaviors of allyship and giving insight in to MIAZS as an organization. Meghan educates about what allyship is and ways in which everyone can be involved in being an ally. Meghan also talks about how to professionally and effectively bring up social justice issues in a workplace and why human behavior is just as important as animal behavior. "The healthier and supported humans are, the healthier and supported the animals are." Stay...

This episode special guest, Sabrina Brando, AnimalConcepts, continues the welfare discussion from episode 35 with a focus on introducing the topic of Welfare Assessments. Sabrina discusses a holistic approach to welfare and the necessity of observational, research-focused data as opposed to emotional thinking in welfare assessments. Sabrina also explains the difference between output-based and input-based welfare assessments. The episode ends with a conversation about constant welfare analysis and effective assessments models. Stay tuned for Sabrina's "Training Tale" about reinforcing a dolphin for saying "no" and not coming to her when asked. For questions or suggestions about the podcast email abc...

This episode concludes Behavior Month 2023 with special guest, Sabrina Brando, AnimalConcepts, to discuss this week's theme for Behavior Month 2023: Welfare Around the World. This episode serves as the podcast's introduction to welfare with plans for future episodes to dive deeper into the science of welfare. Sabrina explains what welfare science is and the different lenses in which we can view animal welfare. Sabrina also discusses the Five Domains Model and the importance of affective states to animal welfare. Stay tuned for Sabrina's powerful "Training Tale" about a monkey taking his choices into his own hands. For questions or suggestions...

This episode continues the learning of Behavior Month 2023 with special guests from The ABMA Board of Directors; Chris Jenkins, Marni Wood, and Justin Garner. The panel of guests discuss this week's theme for Behavior Month 2023: The Human-Animal Connection. The panel talks about the importance of having strong, trusting relationships with animals and tackles the questions: how do we evaluate our relationships with animals and what makes for a "good" or a "bad" relationship? The panel also offers advice on how to grow a relationship through changing our own actions. Stayed tuned for a "Training Tale" from podcast host, Shane...

This episode continues the learning of Behavior Month 2023 with special guests Clarie Santiago and Hunter Peck from Natural Encounters, Inc. who discuss this week's theme for Behavior Month 2023: The Evolution of Enrichment. This is also an exciting episode for the fact that this was a live, in-person recording at the NEI Ranch because NEI graciously hosted The ABMA's 2023 midyear meeting! In this episode our guests discuss the evolution of enrichment, both on a holistic level and within a specific team or facility. Clarie and Hunter also contemplate the shift of enrichment towards behavior-based and how training, enrichment, and behavior...

This episode kicks off Behavior Month 2023 and we are joined once again by special guest, Wouter Stellaard from Behavior 360 and The Kuzo Group, to discuss this week's theme for Behavior Month 2023: Cooperative Care. Wouter discusses what it means for animals to participate in cooperative care and the element of empowering animals to participate and giving them the voice to say yes or no. Wouter also offers advice on times where behavior is needed in a timely manner. To wrap up the conversation, Wouter talks about the importance of cooperative care in a modern zoo and showing that in action...

The panel of guests from the previous episode returns to finish to answer some of the questions that our listeners have submitted concerning the previous 29 episodes. Tricia Dees, Sarah Dugger, and Justin Garner all join the podcast again to answer and discuss a wide range of questions including: the difference between capturing and molding, what it means for the criteria of a behavior to have a "range", how to professionally discuss animals living in human care, and how to educate about labels and constructs. Stayed tuned in for Justin's "Training Tale" about how a cheetah discovered a unique way...

As this is the 30th episode of the podcast we have assembled a panel of guests to answer some of the questions that our listeners have submitted concerning the previous 29 episodes. Tricia Dees, Sarah Dugger, and Justin Garner all join the podcast again to answer and discuss a wide range of questions including: differences between classical and operant conditioning, variable schedules, reinforcement placement, negative reinforcement, and the start of building relationships with an animal. This podcast recording was 3 hours long, so this panel will be back again next episode to finish answering questions. In addition, we ran out of...

This episode kicks off a brand new, reoccurring series on the podcast called "The Behaviors of..." which will dive into the human side of the animal care field. Starting this series off is Dave O'Connell and Kyle Alexander, Bearizona, discussing the behaviors of a unified, supportive team. Dave and Kyle talk about what team behaviors have helped to create a healthy, positive work culture at Bearizona and the importance of focusing not just on the animals, but also the people. Dave and Kyle also discuss the benefits of celebrating everyone's uniqueness, changing a culture from competitive to collaborative, creating...

This episode Becky Wolf, San Diego Zoo, discusses criteria as it pertains to defining behaviors while training. Becky gives examples and a breakdown of the four aspects of a behavior that can be reinforced: topography, duration, frequency, and intensity. The episode ends with a discussion on why it is so important to both the animals, the individual trainer, and a team that a behavior has clear, defined criteria. Stay tuned in for a special treat as Becky shares three "Training Tales" including a unique ostrich recall, a jumping lion, and a cheetah that made special connections with guests. For...

This episode Grace Sullivan, Cheyenne Mountain Zoo , discusses another one of the most fundamental yet powerful training tools: Targets. There are so many applications for target training and Grace breaks down some of the practical applications of targets and how this "simple" behavior can enhance dialogue and give animals' control in their management. This episode is full of tons of practical examples to help get started with target training and then transition that behavior to more complex ones. Stay tuned in for Grace's "Training Tale" about a collaborative win that lead to a really unique target behavior for some...

This episode Christina Lavallee, Zoo Atlanta and ABMA Board of Directors, discusses thoughts and ideas for creating, writing, and implementing a Training Plan.  There is no one way to write a Training Plan and what works for everyone may be different, however, Christina gives ideas on what can be included in a Training Plan, how to get started, and how to give and receive feedback on Training Plans.  Additionally, she talks in depth about the need to be flexible while implementing a Training Plan.  Stay tuned for Christina’s "Training Tale" with a famous screaming-hairy armadillo! For questions or sugge...

This episode Daisy Barrett, SEA LIFE Sunshine Coast Aquarium in Australia, discusses the science and application behind the Discriminative Stimulus (Sd)/Cues. Daisy walks through the many different types of Sds, when and how to introduce a cue, and how to adapt Sds as an animal ages. Stay tuned to hear about Daisy and Shane's favorite cues and for Daisy's "Training Tale" with little blue penguins! For questions or suggestions about the podcast email abc@theabma.org. To reach Daisy, you can message her on her social media channels and check out her new podcast, "Trainer Talks and Tails"...