GeriPal - A Geriatrics and Palliative Medicine Podcast

I’m going to begin with a wonderful quote from a recent editorial in Bioethics by our guests Parker Crutchfield & Jason Wasserman. This quote illustrates the tension between the widely held view in bioethics that slow codes are unethical, and the complexity of real world hospital practice: “Decisive moral positions are easy to come by when sitting in the cheap seats of academic journals, but a troubling ambivalence is naturally characteristic of live dilemmas.”

Gina Piscitello, our third guest, recently surveyed doctors, nurses and others at 2 academic medical centers about slow codes.  In a paper published in JPSM, s...

This is the second GeriPal podcast we’ve recorded live using this format, see this link to our prior podcast at the Center to Advance Palliative Care (CAPC) meeting in Philadelphia.  Also look for our upcoming podcast recorded live from the São Paulo Geriatrics & Gerontology Congress, click here to register.

Today we join you from beautiful Banff, Alberta, Canada at the National Palliative Care Research Center (NPCRC) annual Kathleen Foley retreat.  This meeting was bittersweet.  I’ve been fortunate to attend every meeting in one capacity or another since 2006.  The NPCRC made an enormous impact  on the growth...

Eric and I had the pleasure of doing a GeriPal Live! Podcast as the closing keynote for the recent Center to Advance Palliative Care (CAPC) National Assembly in Philadelphia PA.

For this podcast, we invited 3 guests to each select an article of interest to them, and engage in a discussion about the article, including questions from the CAPC attendees in the audience.

Our guests chose the following articles (in the order discussed)

Matt Gonzales used AI to select an article by Ravi Parikh on algorithm based nudges to default patients with advanced cancer...

We love getting requests from listeners for podcast topics.  This request came from geriatricians we met at the annual American Geriatrics Society meeting in Chicago.  They wanted to know more about what a geriatrician should do in a pre-operative risk assessment.  So we invited Vicky Tang and Houman Javedan, two geriatricians and leaders in the pre-operative assessment and prehab space, to talk with us.

As is our style, we backed up to some bigger questions, including:

-Why do patients need a geriatric assessment pre-operatively?-Why are our surgical colleagues asking us? Is it due...

What is a “good death”? How should we define it, and who gets to decide? Is the concept of a “good death” even useful?

Twenty-five years ago, Karen Steinhauser published a groundbreaking study in JAMA that transformed my understanding of what it means to have a good death and questioned the usefulness of the term itself. This study examined the factors that are important at the end of life for patients, families, physicians, and other healthcare providers.

In today’s podcast, we are honored to have Karen join us to discuss this pivotal study and the nature...

A podcast on medical billing and coding??? Ok, hear us out as we were skeptical too. We’ve invited the Billing Boys, Chris Jones and Phil Rodgers, who convinced us of the following:

Billing is complicated, but it isn’t hard. 

Effectively billing helps pay for the interprofessional team members who often can't bill

We should know our worth and bill for it. Just because a visit didn’t feel HARD to a well-trained provider doesn’t mean it wasn’t complex or valuable.  Many of us have long suffered from low professional self-esteem...

On today’s podcast, we talk about an innovative specialized primary care model for older veterans called the Geriatric Patient Aligned Care Team (GeriPACT) program.  It’s designed with smaller patient panels and enhanced social worker and pharmacist involvement, and its approach is aimed at improving care and outcomes for our aging population.

We unpack the intriguing findings of a recent JAMA Network Open study authored by one of our guests, Susan “Nicki” Hastings, looking at GeriPACT that compares it to a traditional Patient Aligned Care Team (PACT).  While GeriPACT successfully delivered more attention to geriatric conditions, it surpris...

With all the attention focused on Alzheimer's biomarkers and amyloid antibodies, it’s easy to forget that comprehensive dementia care is more than blood draws and infusions. On today’s podcast, we buck this trend and dive into the complexities and challenges of comprehensive dementia care with the authors of two pivotal articles recently published in JAMA.

We’ve invited David Reuben and Greg Sachs to talk about their two respective trials, published in JAMA — D-CARE and IN-PEACE — aimed at improving the evidence for care models supporting individuals diagnosed with dementia. D-CARE tested the comparative effectiveness of health sys...

In today’s podcast we talk with Eric Wong, geriatrician-researcher from Toronto, and Thiago Silva, geriatrician-researcher from Brazil, about the comprehensive geriatrics assessment.  We spend the first 30 minutes (at least) discussing what, exactly is the comprehensive geriatric assessment, including:

What domains of assessment are essential/mandatory components of the comprehensive geriatrics assessment?

Who performs it? Is a multidisciplinary team required? Can a geriatrician perform it alone? Can non-geriatricians perform it?

Who is the comprehensive geriatrics assessment for? Who is most likely to benefit? Eric Widera suggests not as much benefit for very sick and...

On a prior podcast we talked with Todd Semla and Mike Steinman about the update to the AGS Beers Criteria of potentially inappropriate medications in older adults (Todd and Mike co-chair the AGS Beers Criteria Panel).  One of the questions that came up was - well if we should probably think twice or avoid that medication, what should we do instead?

Today we talk with Todd and Mike about their new recommendations of alternative treatments to the AGS Beers Criteria, published recently in JAGS, and also presented at the 2025 AGS conference in Chicago (and available on demand o...

Health care trainees rotate through a variety of different settings. ICUs, hospital wards, and outpatient clinics. If they're lucky, they might even spend time in a nursing home. But on today’s podcast, we’re adding one more setting to that list: your local art museum.

In this thought-provoking episode, we explore how art museum teaching is being integrated into the education of medical professionals—and why it's making a profound difference. Our guests, Amy Klein, Laura Morrison, and Gordon Wood, share their journey of integrating art into medical training, along with practical strategies you can use if you...

In his book, “Why We Revolt,” Victor Montori decries the industrialization of healthcare.  We’ve become a healthcare factory, beholden to health systems motivated by profit. In particular, he laments the loss of the “care” aspect of healthcare.

Clinicians are under the clock to churn through patients.  Patients are tasked with doing work outside of the clinic. Patients are tasked with hours and hours of work to self manage, obtain and manage medications, track weights and fingersticks, not to mention scheduling visits and waiting around for the visit to start.

Now we have an app for that. Fo...

Most health care providers understand the importance of goals-of-care conversations in aligning treatment plans with patients’ goals, especially for those with serious medical problems. And yet, these discussions often either don't happen or at least don't get documented. How can we do better?

In today’s podcast, we sit down with Ira Byock, Chris Dale, and Matthew Gonzales to discuss a multi-year healthcare system-wide goals of care implementation project within the Providence Health Care System. Spanning 51 hospitals, this initiative was recently described in NEJM Catalyst, showing truly impressive results, including an increase from 7% to 85% in goals of care...

What is death anxiety?  We spend the first 15 minutes of the podcast addressing this question.  And maybe this was unfair to our guests, the fabulous dynamic duo of palliative psychiatrists Dani Chammas and Keri Brenner (listen to their prior podcasts on therapeutic presence and the angry patient).  After all, we invited them on to our podcast to discuss death anxiety, then Eric and I immediately questioned if death anxiety was the best term for what we want to discuss!

Several key points stood out to me from this podcast, your key points may differ:

The “anxie...

What’s the ideal blood pressure target for older adults with hypertension? Should we aim for a systolic BP of 120 mmHg in all older adults, as suggested by the SPRINT trial? Or should we be more flexible—especially for those who are frail or among the oldest old?

This week on the GeriPal Podcast, we explore the nuances of managing blood pressure in older adults with our guests Dr. Mark Supiano, Dr. Mitra Jamshidian, and Dr. Simon Ascher. 

Now, some of our astute GeriPal listeners may say, “wait, didn't you already talk about this with Mark Su...

In this week’s episode, we dig into two deceptively simple questions: When does someone become a cancer survivor, and should palliative care be in the business of caring for them? Spoiler: It’s more complicated than it seems.

We’ve invited two palliative care doctors to talk about survivorship with us: Laura Petrillo, a physician-researcher at Mass General Hospital and Harvard Medical School, and Laura Shoemaker, an outpatient palliative care doctor at the Cleveland Clinic. This episode is a must-listen for those navigating the evolving landscape of cancer care, and asking not just how we treat cancer...

June Lunney famously characterized the end of life functional course of people with dementia as a slow dwindle over time. Tom Gill later found that people with dementia do indeed have persistent severe disability throughout the last year of their lives.

But from our clinical work, many of us are familiar with people with dementia who experience sudden shocks to their health, think hip fracture, think hospitalization for pneumonia.  Those disruptive events or shocks often portend a major decline in function from which people with dementia never fully recover.  And they’re often a sign of (or caus...

Happy Pride Month GeriPal listeners!

Transgender issues are in the news. Just today (June 17th) as we record this podcast:

Ezra Klein released a wonderful interview with Sarah McBride, the first openly transgender member of congress

A judge ruled that cuts to NIH grants focused on minority groups, including transgender people, were illegal and ordered the government to restore funding. 

It’s Pride month, and our guests remind us of the leadership of two trans women in the Stonewall riots, which started the modern fight for LGBTQI+ rights and liberation.

...

If you’re anything like me, you might find the process of what happens to patients when they visit a radiation oncologist somewhat mysterious. During my training, I didn’t receive much education about radiation oncology, and I’m not entirely sure what some of the terms mean (hypofractionated means fewer sessions, right?). Well, today’s podcast aims to clear up all these uncertainties.

We’ve invited Anish Butala, the Chief of the Palliative Radiotherapy Service at Penn Medicine, and Emily Martin, a palliative care doctor and past president of the Society for Palliative Radiation Oncology (SPRO), to explain...

The need for better palliative care in nursing homes is significant. Consider this: the majority of the 1.4 million adults residing in U.S. nursing homes grapple with serious illnesses, and roughly half experience dementia. Many also suffer from distressing symptoms like pain. In addition, about 25% of all deaths in the United States occur within these facilities.

Despite these substantial needs, specialized palliative care beyond hospice is rare in nursing homes. Furthermore, only about half of nursing home residents nearing the end of life receive hospice care.

So, how can we improve palliative care for individuals...

Have any of you watched the movie “The Notebook”?  At the end, one of the characters, who has dementia, experiences an episode of lucidity.  When I watched it, between tears (I’m a complete softie) I remember thinking, “Oh no! This will give people false hope!  That their loved one is ‘in there.’ If only they could find the right key to unlock the lock and let them out.”

Today we talk about lucid episodes and what they might mean to the person with dementia, their family and loved ones, to philosophers, to clinicians, to neuroscientists. Our guests are Andrea...

As you know, dear listeners, I love music. We start each podcast with a song in part to shift the frame, taking people out of their academic selves and into a more informal conversation.

Well, today’s guests love music at least as much if not more than me, and they each make a strong case for music as medicine. Jenny Chen is a palliative care fellow at Yale who regularly sings for her seriously ill patients. Look for Jenny to potentially appear on the show America’s Got Talent (no lie).

Tyler Jorgensen not only...

Our main focus today was on nudging critical care clinicians to consider a more palliative approach to care.  Our guests are all trained in critical care: Kate Courtright, Scott Halpern, and Jaspal Singh.  Kate and Scott have additional training in palliative medicine. 

To start. we review:

What is a nudge? Also called behavioral interventions, heuristics, and cognitive biases.

Prior podcasts on the ethics of nudging, and a different trial conducted by Kate and Scott in which the default for hospitalized seriously ill patients was to receive a palliative care consult.

What is...

We’ve covered psychedelics on the podcast before—first in 2019 with Ira Byock, where we explored their potential role in medicine, and then again in 2023 with Stacy Fischer, Brian Anderson, and Theora Cimino, focusing on the reasons to approach psychedelic use in patients with caution.

In today’s episode, we’re taking a closer look at the current state of the science around one specific psychedelic: psilocybin. We'll discuss three recent clinical trials involving patients with serious illness, joined by our guests James Downar, Ali John Zarrabi, and Margaret Ross. 

We begin with a refresher on psiloc...

Peter Selwyn, one of today’s guests, has been caring for people living with HIV for over 40 years.  In that time, care of people with HIV has changed dramatically.  Initially, there was no treatment, then treatments with marginal efficacy, complex schedules, and a tremendous burden of side effects and drug-drug interactions.  The average age at death was in the 30s.

Now, more people in the US die with HIV rather than from HIV.  Treatment regimens are simplified, and the anti-viral drugs are well tolerated.  People are living with HIV into advanced ages.  The average age at death is likel...

More and more people are, “doing their own research.”  Self-identified experts and influencers on podcasts (podcasts!) and social media endorse treatments that are potentially harmful and have little to no evidence of benefit, or have only been studied in animals.  An increasing number of federal leaders have a track record of endorsing such products.

We and our guests have noticed that in our clinical practices, patients and caregivers seem to be asking for such treatments more frequently.  Ivermectin to treat cancer.  Stem cell treatments. Chelation therapy.  Daneila Lamas wrote about this issue in the New York Times this week...

I read Farah Stockman’s article in the NYT on why attacks on DEI will cost us all, and thought, “Yes, and ‘everyone’ includes harm to our healthcare workforce, our patients, and their families.”

So we’re delighted that Farah Stockman, pulitzer prize winning journalist, author of American Made: What Happens to People When Work Disappears, and editorial board member at the New York TImes joins us to set the bigger picture for this discussion.  Farah provides clear examples from the Biden administration, in which having the most diverse cabinet in history was critical to building bridges, empathy, and...

Early in my research career, I was fascinated by the (then) frontier area of palliative care in the emergency department.  I asked emergency medicine clinicians what they thought when a patient who is seriously ill and DNR comes to the ED, and some responded, (paraphrasing), what are they doing here? This is not why I went into emergency medicine. I went into emergency medicine to act. I can’t do the primary thing I’ve been trained to do: ABC, ABC, ABCs.  Most emergency providers wanted to do the right thing for seriously ill patients, but they didn’t have the...

Whelp, goodbye folks!  Eric and I have been DOGE’d.

In a somewhat delayed April Fools, Nancy Lundebjerg and Annie Medina-Walpole have taken over podcast host duties this week.

Their purpose is to interview me, Eric, and Ken Covinsky about your final AGS literature review plenary session taking place at the Annual Meeting in Chicago this May (for those attending, our session is the plenary the morning of May 10).  We discuss our favorite articles, parody songs, and memories from AGS meetings past, with a little preview of a song for this year’s meeting.  

We co...

A pragmatic trial evaluates the effectiveness of a treatment or intervention in “real-world” clinical practice.  Outcomes are typically assessed from available records.  Eligibility in pragmatic trials are often broad, and don’t have the exclusions of efficacy studies, which examine treatment effects under highly controlled conditions in highly select populations.

Today we are delighted to welcome Jennifer Wolff, Sydney Dy, and Danny Scerpella, who conducted a pragmatic trial of advance care planning (ACP) in primary care practices; and Jasmine Santoyo-Olsson, who wrote an accompanying commentary in JAMA Internal Medicine.

We spend the last portion of the podc...

Eric and Alex have featured discussions about complex bioethical concepts around caring for people at the end of life, including voluntarily stopping eating and drinking (VSED), and multiple episodes about the ethical issues surrounding medical aid in dying (MAID). Recently, discussion has emerged about how these issues intertwine in caring for patients with advancing dementia who have stated that they would not want to continue living in that condition: for those with an advanced directive to stop eating and drinking, how do we balance caring for their rational past self and their experiential current self? Should these patients qualify...

As far as we’ve come in the 50 years since Balfour Mount and Sue Britton opened the first palliative care at the Royal Victoria Hospital in Quebec, have we lost something along the way?

In today’s podcast we welcome some of the early pioneers in palliative care to talk about the roots of palliative care.  Sue Britton was the first nurse hired on that palliative care unit. Michael Kearney on a transformational meeting in Cicely Saunders’s office, with Balfour Mount at her side and a glass of sherry.  Justin Sanders wants to be sure the newer ge...

I was very proud to use the word “apotheosis” on today’s podcast.  See if you can pick out the moment.  I say something like, “Palliative care for people experiencing homelessness is, in many ways, the apotheosis of great palliative care.”  And I believe that to be true.  When you think about the early concepts that shaped the field, you can see how palliative care for persons experiencing homelessness fits like a hand in a glove: total pain envisioned by Cicely Saunders, which even its earliest sketches included social suffering like loneliness; or Balfour Mount, who coined the term “palliative care...

Much like deprescribing, we plan to revisit certain high impact and dynamic topics frequently.  Substance use disorder is one of those complex issues in which clinical practice is changing rapidly.  You can listen to our prior podcasts on substance use disorder here, here, here, and here.

Today we talk with experts Janet Ho, Sach Kale, and Julie Childers about opioid use disorder and serious illness.  We address:

Why is caring for patients with this overlap so hard?  Inspired by Dani Chammas’s paper in Annals of Internal Medicine titled, “Wishing for a no show” we talk about...

Trauma is a universal experience, and our approach as health care providers to trauma should be universal as well. That’s my main take-home point after learning from our three guests today when talking about trauma-informed care, an approach that highlights key principles including safety, trustworthiness, peer support, collaboration, empowerment, and cultural sensitivity.

With that said, there is so much more that I learned from our guests for this trauma-informed care podcast. Our guests include Mariah Robertson, Kate Duchowny, and Ashwin Kotwal. Mariah discussed her JAGS paper on applying a trauma-informed approach to home visits. Kate and As...

In today’s podcast we were delighted to be joined by the presenters of the top scientific abstracts for the Annual Assembly of the American Academy of  Hospice and Palliative Medicine (AAHPM) and the Hospice and Palliative Medicine Nurses Association (HPNA).  Eric and I interviewed these presenters at the meeting on Thursday (before the pub crawl, thankfully).  On Saturday, they formally presented their abstracts during the plenary session, followed by a wonderful question and answer session with Hillary Lum doing a terrific job in the role of moderator.

Our three guests were Marie Bakitas, who conducted a trial...

Things are changing quickly in the Alzheimer’s space. We now have biomarkers that can reasonably approximate the degree of amyloid build-up in the brain with a simple blood test.  We have two new FDA-approved medications that reduce that amyloid buildup and modestly slow down the progression of the disease.  So, the question becomes, what, if anything, should we do differently in the primary care setting to diagnose the disease?

On today’s podcast, we’ve invited Nathaniel Chin back to the GeriPal podcast to talk about what primary care needs to manage this new world of Alzheime...

It is a battle royale on this week’s GeriPal podcast. In one corner, weighing in at decades of experience, well known for heavy hits of bedside assessments, strong patient-family relationships, and a knockout punch of interdisciplinary collaboration, we have in-person palliative care consults. But watch out! Travel time can leave this champ vulnerable to fatigue and no-shows.  In the other corner, we have the young upstart, able to reach patients across vast distances when delivering palliative care, all in the comfort of wearing pajamas, we have telehealth delivered palliative care.  However, lack of physical presence may make this cont...

It’s another deprescribing super special on today's GeriPal Podcast, where we delve into the latest research on deprescribing medications prescribed to older adults. Today, we explore four fascinating studies highlighting innovative approaches to reducing medication use and improving patient outcomes.

In our first segment, we discuss a study led by Constance Fung and her team, which investigated the use of a masked tapering method combined with augmented cognitive behavioral therapy for insomnia (CBTI) to help patients discontinue benzodiazepines. The study involved 188 middle-aged and older adults who had been using medications like lorazepam, alprazolam, clonazepam, temazepam, and zo...

Many older adults lose decision-making capacity during serious illnesses, and a significant percentage lack family or friends to assist with decisions. These individuals may become “unrepresented,” meaning they lack the capacity to make a specific medical decision, do not have an advance directive for that decision, and do not have a surrogate to help.

In today’s podcast, we talk with Joe Dixon, Timothy Farrell, and Yael Zweig, authors of the AGS position statement on making medical treatment decisions for unrepresented older adults. We define “unrepresented” and address the following questions:

What is the scope of the unr...