REFS NEED LOVE TOO

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You can be in your mid-50s, start refereeing “late,” and still earn the biggest assignments if you show up prepared, fit, and professional. That’s the heart of our conversation with Jim Lacey, a Los Angeles-area-based grassroots referee, mentor, and instructor who also happens to be a cancer epidemiologist. Jim shares how he moved from AYSO into USSF, started working higher levels alongside his son, and learned what tournament environments like Far West Regionals truly reward.

We also get real about referee safety in Southern California: punishing late-summer heat, relentless sun, l...

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You can love sports and still admit this: the culture can be brutal on mental health. I sit down with Sky Arthur-Banning to talk about why sport is one of the best places to spot distress early, reduce stigma, and build real support networks for athletes, coaches, parents, and officials. We also name the stakes, including suicide prevention, the reality that many people suffer in silence, and why knowing resources like the 988 Suicide and Crisis Lifeline matters.

Sky breaks down the mission behind the U.S. Center for Mental Health and...

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A retired Army Ranger captaining Team USA after a traumatic brain injury. A World Cup coming to Georgia that most soccer fans do not even know exists. A version of the game where the toughest calls are not about memorizing rules, but about understanding how an athlete’s body moves and what “fair” really means. That’s where this conversation with Dr. Skye Arthur Banning takes us, and it left me genuinely rethinking the craft of officiating the beautiful game. 

Skye is a Clemson professor of sport management, a veteran NCAA referee...

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Youth soccer can’t function without referees, yet too many leagues treat officials like an afterthought until the shortage hits. I sit down with Michelle Chesters, Executive Director of SoCal Soccer League, to talk candidly about what it really takes to support referees across one of the biggest youth soccer footprints in the United States: roughly 5,200 teams, over 50,000 players, and games scattered across about 1,200 field locations on a typical weekend. When that many matches rely on grassroots officials, referee development becomes core league infrastructure, not a side project.

We dig into th...

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Four games. Full sun. Ninety degrees. And not a single real break between assignments. We’re talking about the part of soccer nobody wants to face until it goes wrong: extreme heat, overloaded referee schedules, and why the current setup can push officials toward dangerous decisions and real health risk, especially on turf that can feel like 140 degrees at field level. If you’ve ever wondered how referees are supposed to stay sharp, fair, and safe when the calendar is packed for tournament profit, you’ll hear the unfiltered reality here. 

From th...

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You can feel it right away: this isn’t a normal college soccer conversation. We’re talking with Morgan Dunham, Zachary Eggeston, and Kingston McDonald as they help launch the brand-new Tuskegee Golden Tigers men’s and women’s soccer programs, stepping onto campus as the first wave of players tasked with building an NCAA team culture from nothing. No hand-me-down traditions, no “ask the seniors,” just a blank slate and the pressure of knowing every standard they set becomes part of the program’s identity.

What makes their perspective even sharper is tha...

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Five seconds. That’s the new line between “let’s get on with it” and a restart that flips against you. We sit down with Nathan McGill, Director of Referee Education and Development at U.S. Soccer, to unpack the IFAB Laws of the Game 2026-2027 changes that will hit community matches fast, especially anything related to time wasting, match tempo, and ball-in-play time. If you referee youth soccer, adult amateur, or semi-pro games, this conversation is designed to help you walk onto the field on day one with a clear plan and confiden...

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The World Cup can make even experienced fans feel like the rules changed overnight. Players stay on their feet more, restarts happen faster, and referees seem more willing to let contact go without losing control. That’s not an accident, and I wanted a real expert to explain what’s happening and why it matters.

I’m joined by Alan Kelly, a former FIFA referee and the Director of Senior Match Officials at PRO, the organization responsible for training and assigning top professional referees in the United States. Alan shares what it’s l...

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The World Cup is almost here, and my life is about to get loud in the best way: I’m heading to seven matches with FIFA and TikTok as a Creator Correspondent, with access that changes what I can share and where I can share it. That excitement is real, but so is the deeper reason I care about this tournament. When the US Men’s National Team takes the field, you see a diverse group that reminds us what it looks like to pull in the same direction, even when the country feel...

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College soccer is about to change in ways that will hit everyone on match day: referees, coaches, players, and the people in the stands wondering why the game has stopped again. After sharing a personal weekend at the brand-new U.S. Soccer National Training Center, including the eye-opening mechanics of officiating deaf and power wheelchair matches, we bring on one of the best voices to explain what’s coming next for the NCAA.

John Collins, the NCAA national coordinator of soccer officials and a professional assessor across MLS, NWSL, and USL, wa...

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The strangest part about refereeing is that everyone sees you, but almost nobody knows you. This week David was a guest on the "For Ref's Sake" podcast. 

We talk about how I went from a grassroots soccer referee turned global creator during the COVID era, which sparked a community where referees, coaches, players, and parents can finally talk about the game like humans. What happens when officials stop being faceless and start being approachable, educational, and honest about how decisions get made?

We get into the real craft of o...

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The fastest way to lose a new referee is to certify them online and then throw them into the deep end on a busy weekend. We start with a few big updates from my world, including our first Dr. Tom Gerson Pops Memorial Scholarships for referees and why telling those stories every year matters to me and my family.

Then I’m joined by Carlos Ledesma, a Northern California assigner, director of referees, and certified mentor who has quietly built what a lot of leagues are missing: a repeatable system to re...

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A single referee mistake can hijack your confidence for days, especially when it happens in a high school playoff match with a crowd watching. I share a raw update on a procedural error I had to admit publicly, including the moment I took a go-ahead goal off the board and how heavy that felt after the final whistle. If you’ve ever walked to your car replaying one decision on repeat, you’ll recognize the mix of pride, guilt, and the need to keep showing up anyway. 

From there, we pivot to th...

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A playoff match can feel perfect for 50 minutes and then unravel in 10 seconds. That’s what happened to me in Georgia, and I’m not proud of it. I’m sharing the full, raw story of a high school postseason game where I made a procedural mistake on a restart, saw the consequences hit the scoreboard, and then had to make the hardest choice a referee can make in public: admit it and fix it.

We talk through the whole arc, from pregame prep and crew dynamics to why comms can help w...

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The hardest part of picking up a whistle as an adult isn’t learning the signals, it’s walking onto the field while everyone assumes you’ve done this forever. Holly Jimenez knows that feeling firsthand. She starts refereeing at 42, feels the nerves at U9 games, makes the kind of mistakes that haunt you on the drive home, and still keeps showing up until her experience builds and the confidence grows.

We get into how she goes from local youth soccer to top level assignments like MLS NEXT environments and semi-pro matche...

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The fastest way to level up as a soccer referee is not learning one more obscure law, it is learning how to handle people when the match te. I’m joined by Jan Aravitra, a former FIFA international referee from Finland with nearly two decades at the top level, including UEFA competitions and World Cup qualifiers. We get into the behind-the-scenes reality of working with different crews, different cultures, and different communication styles, especially from the perspective of an elite assistant referee.

We talk about focus in hostile environments, and how yo...

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A soldier-turned-official sets a six-year goal to reach the Premier League—and makes it! Then he does an even rarer thing: he stays for over 15 years! We sit down with Scott Ledger, a 500+ appearance Premier League Assistant Referee and FA Cup Final appointee, to unpack the craft behind elite officiating—how preparation, humility, and sharp eyes under pressure create credibility when tens of thousands are judging every move.

Scott takes us inside the modern toolkit: pre-match data packs that map set-piece patterns and passing lanes, film study to anticipate offside traps and...

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A soldier-turned-official sets a six-year goal to reach the Premier League—and makes it! Then he does an even rarer thing: he stays for over 15 years! We sit down with Scott Ledger, a 500+ appearance Premier League assistant referee and FA Cup Final appointee, to unpack the craft behind elite officiating—how preparation, humility, and sharp eyes under pressure create credibility when tens of thousands are judging every move.

Scott takes us inside the modern toolkit: pre-match data packs that map set-piece patterns and passing lanes, film study to anticipate offside traps and scre...

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Abusive sidelines don’t fix bad calls—and they’re driving referees out of the game. We sat down with U.S. Soccer’s Vice President of Referees, Kari Seitz, to break down how “Respect the Call” and Policy 531-9 are changing that story with clear standards, real accountability, and education designed for today’s crews.

We start with the foundation: knowing the difference between a raw emotional reaction and dissent. That clarity matters because early, consistent action keeps matches from spiraling. Kari explains the new video series that teaches practical skills most of...

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Ever wonder what “clear and obvious” actually means when the stakes are high and the clock is running? We bring you a rare, candid look inside MLS video review with Greg Barkey, the head of VAR at PRO. Greg shares how the system was built in the United States—from early scrimmages with eight cameras at a local park to the first monitor review at Red Bull Arena—and why the guiding principle remains simple: to correct clear and obvious errors without re-refereeing the match.

We dig into the humanity officiating: game man...

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Ever wonder what a referee actually says to defuse tenssions—or how it feels to make a split-second call with no assistants and 22 players demanding an answer? We sit down with Eric Edge, the former semi-pro goalkeeper behind the viral channel Behind The Whistle, to unpack the real craft of Sunday League officiating: honesty that cools tempers, foul selection that protects the game, and transparency that turns critics into collaborators.

Eric explains why he films every match and posts full breakdowns, not as a highlight reel but as a learning lab. We...

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This week, we have a true full-circle moment on the show. After listening to our recent episode with Kevin Klinger on referee mindset, Regional Referee Alex Perez sent in an incredible email about how he immediately applied those lessons during a grueling college showcase weekend. We were so moved by his story—and how he turned a potential on-field disaster into a success—that we immediately invited him on the pod to share his experience firsthand.

Based in West Virginia, Alex is a USSF Regional Referee and National Candidate who officiates in m...

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Pressure doesn’t just come from the scoreboard—it lives in your head and your chest when the crowd roars and a coach questions your integrity. We sit down with Kevin Klinger, Director of Referee Education and Development at U.S. Officials and founder of Officials Mental Edge, to break down the mental skills that separate solid refs from truly elite officials. Kevin brings a rare dual lens as a longtime pro referee and licensed counselor, translating sports psychology into practical, on‑field tools.

We unpack how a real development ecosystem goes f...

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A year can include joy and pain without destroying you. In 2025, I said goodbye to my dad—the person I called on every big news story, new tech breakthrough, or small family win—and then rebuilt my life in a way he’d love to hear about. That mix of grief and momentum shaped everything: how I left about work, how I re-built my career, and how I chose where to invest my energy.

The moment the fun drained out of a private equity‑owned, corporate job and the relief that came wit...

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Ever tried to judge a play from six feet off the ground with bodies flying past and zero replays? That’s where referees live, and it’s nothing like the view from the stands. We sit down with RefReps CEO Kyle Armstrong to explore how first‑person video, multi‑angle breakdowns, and short, high‑impact modules are rebuilding the referee pipeline and reshaping sports culture from the ground up.

Kyle walks us through the origin story, the tech stack, and the classroom model that puts officiating into high schools and colleges. Students r...

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Big games don’t get easier; you get better at carrying them. Ahead of my first State Cup final, I open up about nerves, preparation, and the quiet work that turns pressure into focus: fitness tuned for late sprints, gear and crew checks that prevent chaos, and a five-minute reset that keeps me in the match instead of in my head. The heart of the story is confidence earned over 1,500 matches and the decision to judge what’s in front of me, not the crowd around me.

Howard Webb’s The Man in...

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We sat down with Daneen Gonçalves, founder and chief visionary officer of The Referee Advocates, to unpack a simple idea with massive impact: treat referees like an integral and supported part of your club, build clear development pathways and watch the entire matchday experience improve. Danine brings decades as a player, coach, official and leadership professional, and she’s using that experience to help clubs become great places for referees to work and grow.

We dig into the broken parts of the system—referees thrown into games they’re not ready f...

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Tired of holding your flag up for Offside, while the whole sideline screams “REF!”? We go straight at the problem and bring on engineer and referee Sam Rall, the creator of RareBit Offcial buzzer flags. He shows how a simple haptic signal can transform crew communication, reduce chaos, and keep matches flowing. 

David opens with the bigger picture—why innovation in referee education meets resistance from comfortable committees—and then we zoom into the design and decisions that make a better tool: modern Bluetooth 5 for reliable range, firmware that boosts power only when...

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The whistle isn’t the hard part. It’s the noise around it—sidelines boiling over, subtle bias that undermines authority, and those early games where one bad interaction can end a career before it starts. We sit down with rising official Mia Clark to talk about staying in the game, building real confidence, and why supporting women on the whistle changes everything.

Mia traces her path from a 14-year-old assistant learning the lines in the rain to assignments in the USLW and high school state playoffs. She shares the moments that a...

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Grief has a way of focusing the lens on what actually matters: how someone lived, how they treated those who couldn't fight back, and what they stood for even when it was unpopular. My dad never reffed, but he taught me everything about making life’s hardest decisions—kindness first, integrity always, and the courage to do the hard right thing when it counts.

We trace a life well lived: European trips, science missions to Alaska and Hawaii, a deep love of national parks, and a New Yorker’s unlikely passion for co...

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Landing my dream job as Director of Referee Programming and Development at SoCal Soccer League marks the culmination of a four-year journey that began when I started the Refs Need Love Too channel as a joke in 2021. What started as an escape from corporate burnout has transformed into a full-time opportunity to improve referee development across the largest soccer league in America, with over 4,400 teams and 40,000 players.

This career shift represents everything I've been working toward—taking what I've done nights and weekends for years and making it my day job. Th...

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What does it take to officiate at the highest level of world soccer? Matthew Conger, who refereed at both the 2018 and 2022 FIFA World Cups, pulls back the curtain on the journey from grassroots to elite officiating in this fascinating conversation.

Growing up as a goalkeeper in Georgia before eventually representing New Zealand on the international stage, Conger's unique path provides rare insights into what truly separates good referees from great ones. "Positioning and movement is the bedrock of good decision-making," he explains, revealing how sometimes just two or three meters makes...

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What if the secret to transforming youth soccer wasn't silencing parents, but engaging them properly? In this eye-opening conversation, Skye Eddy, founder of SoccerParenting.com and "The Sideline Project" challenges the conventional wisdom about "crazy soccer parents" and reveals a path forward that benefits everyone in the youth sports ecosystem.

The narrative that parents are the worst part of youth sports has dominated for too long. Skye argues that while the truly problematic parents make up just 4-5% of the population, they've "ruined it for everyone" - driving away referees and...

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What separates great referees from good ones isn't just knowledge of the laws—it's emotional intelligence. This deeply personal episode explores the challenging balance of life as a sports official while introducing a powerful mental framework called the  "Let Them" theory from Mel Robbins."

We begin with an intimate look at the struggle to balance a demanding marketing career, family transitions, and referee responsibilities. As my two oldest children prepare to leave for college just as the new soccer season begins, I'm reminded how referees must constantly juggle competing priorities while sti...

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Ever wonder why soccer fields seem to ignite emotions like few other places? In this eye-opening conversation, Dr. Ryan Martin – known as the Anger Professor – reveals the perfect psychological storm that makes pitches emotional pressure cookers.

Dr. Martin challenges our fundamental understanding of anger, explaining it's not inherently negative but rather a signal of perceived injustice or goal-blocking. On the soccer field, this manifests when calls feel unfair or when someone believes the referee is preventing them from achieving their objective – winning. What makes sporting events uniquely volatile is the combination of hig...

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Soccer's law book undergoes a mini-revolution with the 2025-2026 Laws of the Game, and referee Leland Grant, National Referee Coach and Umpiro founder, breaks down the four most significant changes poised to transform how matches unfold across all levels of play.

The first major change introduces a powerful new tool for match officials: the captain-only zone. When surrounded by multiple players, referees can now signal for a four-meter exclusion zone where only the designated team captain may approach. This mechanic directly addresses referee harassment, requiring captains to wear proper armbands and...

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Ever wonder how to stay passionate while juggling multiple demanding roles? This candid episode dives into the reality of balancing life as a referee, business professional, content creator, and parent during an especially hectic season.

David shares his journey through a particularly intense period—working full-time in sales and marketing for Hip Hues, running Refs Need Love Too, and preparing for his daughter's high school graduation while managing to referee challenging matches. Rather than feeling overwhelmed, he's discovered a powerful mindset shift that transforms exhaustion into fulfillment: consistently asking "Is what I...

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Ever wondered what it takes to officiate at the collegiate level? John Collins, the National Coordinator of Men's and Women's Soccer Officials for the NCAA, pulls back the curtain on a world that represents both challenge and opportunity for advancing referees.

With college soccer now boasting the largest officiating pool in NCAA sports—over 5,380 registered officials—Collins reveals the pathways to breaking into this level. "If you're working at the top youth level and at the amateur level, NCAA soccer is probably a fit for you," he explains, detailing how referees typi...

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What does it take to excel as a defender when you don't fit the physical prototype? Michael Parkhurst, who captained Atlanta United to their 2018 MLS Cup victory, reveals how his mind became his greatest strength on the soccer pitch.

"My brain was my biggest asset," Parkhurst explains, detailing how he compensated for lacking the traditional center back qualities of height, strength, and aerial prowess. This mental approach not only fueled his remarkable professional career but also inspired his current mission helping young players develop beyond their technical abilities.

After...