Smoke 'Em If You Got 'Em Podcast

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Nancy and Sarah discuss a new Sydney Sweeney ad for American Eagle. Is saying “my jeans are blue” a dog whistle? Or is “dog whistle” a 21st-century term for finding outrage in absolutely anything? Speaking of, you can count on the New York Times to detail another thing men are doing wrong. This week we talk “mankeeping!”

But most of this episode concerns one Billy Joel, whose HBO doc has thrust him in the spotlight again. Why do critics hate him so...

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Nancy and Sarah discuss a recent viral essay in NYT magazine called “The Trouble With Wanting Men.” Nancy had a meltdown reading this story, while Sarah saw romantic problems she recognized as well as behavior designed to fail. The two ladies talk about a vogue for female bitchery, a lack of grace in women’s voices, and whether men and women can ever repair the anger and resentment that’s erupted between them — at least online.

Also discussed:

* The ti...

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Nancy and Sarah discuss the viral story of the week: Astronomer CEO Andy Byron and head of HR Kristin Cabot get caught cuddling on camera at a Coldplay concert. Who are these people, and why do we care? Good question! Celebrity in the 21st century is a relative term, and this story raises questions about surveillance, social-media Schadenfreude, the danger of online sleuthing, and why we have Kiss Cams in the first place.

The ladies also talk about a...

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Nancy and Sarah are stumbling into land mines — quickly! — in this episode, where a convo about Jennifer Love Hewitt’s recent turn in the spotlight proves the ladies don’t even agree on that. It’s hard to talk about women and their bodies: Fat vs. curvy, skinny vs. anorexic, body positive vs. morbidly obese, Ozempic-face vs. mom-bod, Lena Dunham vs. #SkinnyTok. How the ladies discuss these subjects may offend some people (warning: a lot of boob talk), but maybe it’s time to st...

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Eli Lake, host of the Breaking History podcast, loves America. But what does that mean? We discuss the long unfinished experiment of our country, and the fashionable anti-semitism that’s swept colleges/the youngs, or as Eli calls them, “barista socialists.” We talk about how elite colleges fell apart, when the left becomes violent, and why valuing ideology over human lives is never a good look.

Also discussed:

* Eli’s July 4 AI song is a BOP

* Sara...

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Dan Savage: What better person to explain the mess that is the P Diddy trial? The “Savage Love” columnist/podcaster chats with Sarah and Nancy about the hip-hop mogul’s fetishes, OCD kinksters, the troubling statute of limitations on domestic abuse, and the dangerous elasticity of the term “sex trafficking.” This one is fascinating, fraught, and taught us a lot!

Also discussed:

* “It’s not RICO, it’s FREAK-O!”

* Dan stans Steve & Eydie

* Sarah is a little...

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Nancy and Sarah debate a Modern Love column called, “Men, Where Have You Gone? Please Come Back.” Nancy is gagging. Sarah thinks it’s an imperfect swing in the right direction. Who will reign supreme? Eh, they both have a point. Also, the girls go deep on Karen Read, blackouts and causes celebre.

Also discussed:

* Nancy’s new nickname: Maidenform!

* New York, a socialist utopia?

* Be a YouTube subscriber, either because or despite our prom...

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Nancy and Sarah are joined by Katie Herzog, co-host of the Blocked and Reported podcast and author of an up-and-coming book on quitting booze, Drink Yourself Sober. They talk about getting canceled, navigating public backlash, and why Katie’s drinking tale is different from Sarah’s — she used Naltrexone, an opioid-blocker, to help quit. They discuss AA, the meaning of the word “alcoholic,” the nature of addiction, and why there’s no wrong way to get sober.

Also on tap:

...

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Nancy is reporting from the land of burning Waymos, Sarah is celebrating a sobriety milestone, and “Fifth Column’s” Matt Welch joins us to talk L.A. unrest, the potential for WW III, the scope of newspaper collapse — but first! Felicia Sonmez is back at the Washington Post? Stop the presses! We also cover Weinstein and Diddy and anticipate a weekend of No Kings protest. Matt is “worried sick about Saturday.” The center has held so far, but the stage for conflict is...

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It’s hot, it’s June, and there’s mayhem in a major American city, this time Los Angeles. Nancy lived through the Rodney King riots, and though LA will hopefully not explode thusly, Nancy is heading there to cover the action. Want to help her? You can.

In other news, the Musk-Trump bromance imploded last week. Sarah has theories about the timing of certain tweets and deletions, in addition to what might come next. She catches us up on the...

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Brooke Siem is the author of the 2022 memoir, May Cause Side Effects, about the decade and a half she spent on anti-depressants (prescribed after her father died when she was 15) and what happened when she ditched them. Sarah is currently on anti-depressants, though she wonders whether she needs them. Nancy is not on SSRIs, though she was part of a gentle brigade who nudged Sarah to increase her dosage last year. This is a complicated knot! The ladies talk about over-medication...

Hello, mighty listeners and readers. This post is free for all, with an ask: Please subscribe to our new YouTube channel. Even better, watch/listen on the YT. Smooch!

Nancy has a “virus of unknown origin” while Sarah is rarin’ to go on a story she sunk her teeth into years ago: the trials of Harvey Weinstein, this time, his current NYC re-trial for criminal sexual acts. (His previous NY conviction was overturned in April 2024.)

The Weinstein case is interesting, because most people think they know it, but they really just know the salacious details and hy...

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Happy Memorial Day! Nancy and Sarah discuss a Columbia Journalism Review bombshell about the alleged sexual misdeeds of journalist Wes Lowery, who shot to fame during the Black Lives Matter era and is perhaps best known for popularizing the idea of journalism guided by “moral certainty.”

This is hot one! Sarah gets kneejerk over blackout confusion, Nancy doesn’t understand “situationships,” and they argue over the def...

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Ethan Strauss is a straight shooter in a (slightly) crooked profession. As a writer who follows sports and culture, the Substacker and podcaster has a land grab on pointing out things that others have become reluctant to acknowledge. He talks with Nancy and Sarah about the contradictions of the WNBA, the popularity of Caitlin Clark and the reluctance of sneaker brands to give her a shoe (at least first), how men have changed the audience for women’s sports, and NBA te...

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Before we talk about this episode: Pretty-please go to YouTube and subscribe to our new channel. It costs you nothing! It could give you so much joy! Now, on to the show:

Nancy and Sarah go deep on the Sean Combs case, thus inspiring them to slap the first warning label on a Smoke ‘Em episode. This one’s explicit! It’s also sad, confusing, funny-depressing, one more cautionary tale about fame, money, and power. They talk about the recent...

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Poet and author Nick Flynn joins Nancy and Sarah to talk about poems that blew his mind, the destabilizing experience of watching your life re-enacted in a movie (his memoir Another Bullshit Night in Suck City became Being Flynn with Robert DeNiro, Julianne Moore, and Paul Dano), why DeNiro demanded Nick be on set, riding in a limo to said set with the young Dano, and why white male writers are alive and well, at least in the classes he teaches.<...

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Stop what you are doing and subscribe to Smoke ‘Em’s new YouTube! Right now yes thank you. On to our regular program!

Nancy and Sarah are joined by culture critic/novelist Kat Rosenfield to talk about who we can blame for our current morass: Social media? Heterodox thinkers? Everyone? The trio end up discussing the difference between activism and storytelling, what it means to be “disingenuous,” Kat’s Twitter beef with Cathy Young, writer’s envy (or maybe just Sarah’s...

Just out here, two ladies taking in the view from three years into their podcast on the outskirts of the zeitgeist. The Old 97s make honest women of us. Dave Cicirelli gives us a new look. Nancy and Sarah are making this episode free to everyone, in celebration of 1095+ days of trying to make sense of this crazy world.

Also discussed:

* The Smoke ‘Em guests that riled up listeners

* Ross Douthat “places his finger on the deep wound”

* We love a dorky wedding!

* Pop quiz for Nancy: Pronounce “swastika”

* Our...

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Nancy and Sarah discuss the continuing saga of Luigi Mangione, newly minted folk hero and alleged assassin of United Healthcare CEO Brian Thompson. “Here’s this man who is a revolutionary, who’s famous, who’s handsome, he’s smart, he’s a person who seems like a morally good man, which is hard to find,” said journalist Taylor Lorenz on CNN, and while there was some context to that comment, there wasn’t much. At Coachella, Circle Jerks’ frontman Keith Morris called for...

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Nancy and Sarah discuss former “Shagger of the Year” Russell Brand, who’s been charged with sexual misconduct, a year or two after an explosive documentary landed on British TV about the comedian/entertainer/podcaster/New-Age guru. That show kicked off a criminal investigation, now headed to the courts.

Brand is at once an obvious and peculiar #MeToo target, since he was so outspoken about his misdeeds in real time, including a memoir about his sex addiction called My Booky...

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Liz Wolfe, Reason writer/podcaster, joins Nancy and Sarah to talk about the mess of politics, the value of free speech, and how to talk about parenting in a world where fewer and fewer women are parents. Wolfe is not your average 28 year old: Unapologetically pro-life and pro-natalist as a time when many in her generation haven’t even started contemplating freezing their eggs. Or, in the case of singer Chappell Roan, 27, they might tell an interviewer, “All of my friends who...

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Investigative reporter Lee Fang talks with Nancy and Sarah about his latest Substack story, “Democrats' Dark Money Fund for TikTok Influencers,” about secret forces behind the sudden media enthusiasm of Kamala Harris’ presidential announcement. “As it turns out, the tidal wave of enthusiasm was not entirely genuine. Much of the content,” writes Fang, “was quietly funded by an elusive group of Democratic billionaires and major donors in an arrangement designed to conceal the payments from voters.”

Fang may be familiar to li...

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Nancy and Sarah are joined by Aaron Gywn — paragon of good will on Twitter/X (follow at x.com/AmericanGwyn), literature professor, and author of numerous works of fiction, including The Cannibal Owl — to discuss a recent viral story in Compact Magazine, “The Vanishing White Male Writer.” We talk about shifts in publishing/culture, the trap of identity, and what great literature can do. Since Gwyn is a Cormac McCarthy expert, we also discuss the controversial 2024 Vanity Fair story about McCarthy and his...

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Donald McNeil Jr., a 45-year New York Times veteran, comes on the pod to talk with Nancy and Sarah about … so much. The prompt was the recent NYT story, “We Were Badly Misled About the Event That Changed Our Lives.” As the paper of record tries to come correct on Covid, we wanted to hear from the science journalist, one of the first to tell Americans about this strange thing called the coronavirus. A self-declared “cranky old-school” reporter, McNeil landed the story of h...

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As we mark the fifth (yes, fifth!) anniversary of Covid, Nancy and Sarah look back at the mistakes, the time warp, the lessons. While some of these experiences are collective, some are quite specific, especially in blue states where enforced lockdowns and school closures stretched on longer. Was the misery of that time period a symptom of authoritarianism — or democracy?

Big topic of the day: Ruby Franke, the Mormon mom with a YouTube channel currently serving time in prison fo...

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Nancy and Sarah are joined by the Great Mike Pesca, one-time Jeopardy! contestant and host of news podcast The Gist, to talk about dudes and dude-related topics. They discuss men’s-only spaces and whether women’s workout wear has become hyper-sexualized (and is that a bad thing?). They also break down Gavin Newsom’s podcast debut with his guest, conservative firebrand Charlie Kirk. Good idea? Dangerous idea? It’s always a good time when Pesca visits the Smoke ‘Em pod.

Also dis...

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“It was a very bad night for American boobs,” Sarah observed of the 2025 Oscars, where a conspicuous fashion trend has gone mostly unnoticed. Nancy and Sarah are on record for believing boobs are magic, so why did so many gorgeous actresses hide their tractor beams under a bushel? Could it be a sign of fashion’s increasing androgyny… or Hollywood’s increasing irrelevance? Then, Nancy goes on a multi-part rant about the Tate brothers coming back to the U.S., while Sarah pond...

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Eli Lake is not a historian but a “journalist who loves history.” The former “Re-Education of Eli Lake” host and current Free Press contributor comes on Smoke for the second time to discuss his latest pop-history podcast, “Why We’re Obsessed with JFK Conspiracies.” As usual, Lake puts his own distinctive spin on a story that may have been told before, yes, but not this way.

First, though, Nancy and Sarah have to talk to Eli about Israel. Eli explains that...

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You might know Meghan McCain from her stints at FOX, The View, SiriusFM, but surely you know her as the daughter of the late Arizona senator John McCain. “Nepo baby!” McCain jokes during her podcast introduction, but McCain is much more than that. She’s a savvy media fixture who has very strong opinions about, well, everything. Nancy and Sarah like that in a gal! The three of them talk about politics, body image, #MeToo, and the vibe shift that has made c...

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“Would you have Elon Musk’s baby?” Sarah texted Nancy the other day, to which she responded, “Fuck no.” Thus launches the latest Smoke ‘Em debate, in which our co-host who is without child confesses she’d take some of that SpaceX sperm. Has she lost her mind, or is she merely responding to nature’s imperative? We discuss this, as well as Musk’s new babymama, Ashley St. Clair.

Then it’s on to a double-dip from New York Times Magazine...

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Nancy and Sarah celebrate Valentine’s Day with a civil disagreement on how stupid the holiday actually is. Also: Sex trivia! The conversation ranges from how people can masturbate in an MRI to Super Bowl controversies and the greatness of Janet Malcolm. Also discussed:

* All New Yorkers go to Miami?

* Sarah explains women to Nancy

* Gifts are not meant to be manipulations

* Kanye and AI nonsense

* “Swat-sticker” (!!!!!)

* Bill Gates on the...

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“Ready to go ten rounds?” Nancy asked Sarah, when Sarah asked her to watch Emilia Pérez, a Spanish-language musical for which there is no shortage of agitation on both the right and the left. Trans activists hate it, Ben Shapiro called it garbage, Mexican film goers are apparently asking for their money back. And yet, the movie got a whopping 13 Oscar nominations. What gives?

Nancy reluctantly watched Emilia Pérez, and — was completely surprised. Her reaction was, in fact, ve...

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Sarah and Nancy discuss the Atlantic story “The Anti-Social Century,” about how much of modern life is being lived in isolation. They talk about eating alone, parasocial relationships, and why Sarah feels completely nailed by the data point that “the typical female pet owner spends more time actively engaged with her pet than she spends in face-to-face contact with friends of her own species.”

Also discussed:

* Okay, we’ll talk about that thing Elon did

* Is the blu...

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Reading Noah Rothman’s new piece in Commentary, “A Clockwork Blue: How the Left Has Come to Excuse Away and Embrace Political Violence,” I felt as though he had written it just for me; this, because he called to account institutions and individuals who proclaim violence from the left justified, a trend I found maddening when I covered 150+ nights of violent street protests in Portland in 2020.

And about that: How long did Rothman think that violence would have been explai...

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Nancy and Sarah dive into the messy New York magazine cover story on literary superstar Neil Gaiman, accused of sexual assault by multiple women. The story broke over the summer in a British podcast — which Nancy and Sarah listened to, and much preferred — and they zero in on the story’s different presentations and ethical tangles. It’s a tale of celebrity, status-seeking, boundarilessness, and cruelty. But is it criminal? Let’s discuss.

Also discussed:

* Joe Biden made a spe...

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Be warned, beloveds: Lots of sex talk here; hide the kiddies and the squeamish. Also! Due to some ghost in the machine, our last episode, “Meghan Daum on What We've Lost in the Los Angeles Wildfires,” may have included a paywall that we did not put there. It is free for all, and it’s fixed now.

No worries if you haven’t seen “Babygirl,” the erotic drama wherein a tightly wound CEO with an Instagram-perfect life (Nicole Kidman) gets down an...

Essayist and Unspeakable pod host Meghan Daum joins Nancy and Sarah to talk about the worst fires ever recorded in Southern California — what it was like to learn that her house in Altadena burned down, the blame game that both sides are playing, the surreal celebrity angle, and why you don’t actually have to tweet.

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“I am still waiting for my bathrobe, and until you give it to me, I am going to be forced to do this podcast in the nude,” Kat Rosenfield tells Nancy and Sarah, who really need to move on this gift they keep promising her for repeat appearances. Kat is here to discuss her recent Free Press column on Blake Lively and Justin Baldoni, “a turducken of a story” about alleged misbehavior and creative control on the set of It Ends With Us...

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Nancy and Sarah share their highs and lows from the year that was. Which movie did Nancy love, and Sarah despise? (Hint: It’s not the Bob Dylan movie.) Which book did Sarah love, even though Nancy finds the author “twee”? Plus, Sarah quizzes Nancy about momentous events in 2024, and Nancy mostly bombs, no cap.

Also discussed:

* “It’s always butter with you”

* Was Joan Baez that hot?

* The movie that set both Sarah and Na...

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It’s the end of 2024, and Sarah and Nancy wonder if two recent media phenomena represent a paradigm shift in two areas: porn and the collective consciousness. On one side: “I’m Lily Phillips, and today I’m getting run through by a hundred guys.” On the other side: “This groundbreaking series challenges everything we think we know about communication and the human mind, inviting viewers to step into a reality where the impossible is not only possible but happening every day.”

...