Freakonomics Radio
Freakonomics co-author Stephen J. Dubner uncovers the hidden side of everything. Why is it safer to fly in an airplane than drive a car? How do we decide whom to marry? Why is the media so full of bad news? Also: things you never knew you wanted to know about wolves, bananas, pollution, search engines, and the quirks of human behavior. To get every show in the Freakonomics Radio Network without ads and a monthly bonus episode of Freakonomics Radio, start a free trial for SiriusXM Podcasts+ on Apple Podcasts or by visiting siriusxm.com/podcastsplus.
690. It’s Show Business, Baby!
Podcasting started as a niche-nerd pursuit. Now it’s a $9 billion industry. Is that a lot? The strange economics of this thing we do.
SOURCES:Jim Bankoff, chairman and C.E.O. of Vox Media.Ben Davis, head of digital at WME.Will Page, former chief economist at Spotify and author of Pivot.Jenna Weiss-Berman, head of Paper Kite Audio and executive producer of Good Hang with Amy Poehler.Jeanine Wright, co-founder and C.E.O. of Liquid Studios (Inception Point AI).
RESOURCES:"U.S. AI infrastructure buildout is surpassing every prior investment in Amer...
689. Here’s Why Your Hamburger Just Got So Pricey
An economist calls America’s beef industry a “miracle.” An antitrust scholar calls it “broken.” Maybe they’re both right?
SOURCES:Austin Frerick, agriculture antitrust expert, fellow at Yale University, author of Barons: Money, Power, and the Corruption of America's Food Industry.Robert Hodgen, C.E.O. of King Ranch.Roger Horowitz, food historian, director of the Center for the History of Business, Technology, and Society at the Hagley Museum and Library.Derrell Peel, Charles Breedlove Professorship of Agribusiness in the department of agricultural economics at Oklahoma State University.
RESOURCES:"The hamburger story," by Derrell Peel...
688. When Is a Bet Not a Bet?
That’s the question at the heart of a battle between Kalshi and state gambling regulators. As prediction markets boom, there are other questions, too — about insider trading, market manipulation, and whether the public has turned against them. (Part two of a two-part series.)
SOURCES:Gary Gensler, former chair of the S.E.C. and the C.F.T.C.Robin Hanson, professor of economics at George Mason University.Nicole Kagan, head of research at Kalshi.Tarek Mansour, co-founder and C.E.O. of Kalshi.
RESOURCES:"Shall We Vote on Values, But Bet on Beliefs...
687. Are Prediction Markets the Best Forecasting Tool Ever — or Just Another Casino?
The promise is that they can beat the experts at predicting inflation, elections, and FDA approvals. But right now, roughly 90 percent of the action is sports. Is this a future we want to bet on? Stephen Dubner speaks with, among others, the C.E.O. of Kalshi. (Part one of a two-part series.)
SOURCES:Robin Hanson, professor of economics at George Mason University.Nicole Kagan, head of research at Kalshi.Tarek Mansour, co-founder and C.E.O. of Kalshi.
RESOURCE:"Kalshi and the Rise of Macro Markets," by Anthony Diercks, Jared Dean Katz, and Jo...
How to Be a Double Unicorn, with John Urschel | Better in Person
He was thriving in the N.F.L., but then he decided to focus on mathematics — a subject he now teaches at M.I.T. John walks Stephen Dubner through the whole story, teaches him some blocking techniques, and explains why some infinities are bigger than others.
If you'd like to see the video version of Better in Person, you can watch it on YouTube or Apple Podcasts.
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686. Why Is It So Hard to Find an NFL Quarterback?
For decades, teams have tried (and mostly failed) to predict which college quarterbacks will thrive in the pros. Is the science finally catching up? Stephen Dubner speaks with a scout, a psychologist, a data warrior, and a Hall of Fame quarterback who nobody wanted.
RESOURCES:"Head in the game: the impact of cognitive abilities on perf...
Amazon Was Supposed to Kill the Bookstore. James Daunt Had Other Plans | Better in Person
He started with one small shop in London. He has since resuscitated both Barnes & Noble and Waterstones. He tells Stephen Dubner exactly how he does it.
If you'd like to see the video version of Better in Person, you can watch it on YouTube or Apple Podcasts.
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685. How to Survive the A.I. Shock
Gina Raimondo, a former commerce secretary and governor, thinks A.I. will create plenty of jobs in the long run. She also thinks a poorly managed transition could tear the country apart. So she came up with a plan.
RESOURCES:"What Makes New Work Different from More Work?," by David Autor, Caroline Chin, Anna Salomons, and Bryan Seegmiller (NBER, 2026)."$500 million AI jobs push launches with bipartisan backing," by Christine Mui (POLITICO, 2026)."Gina Raimondo and Eric Holcomb Launch RAISE US, Uniting the Nation’s Leading Emplo...
How to Run an Institution in an Anti-Institution Era | Better in Person
Anne Pasternak (Brooklyn Museum) and Michael Roth (Wesleyan University) tell Stephen Dubner how they keep the peace in the middle of a culture war.
If you'd like to see the video version of Better in Person, you can watch it on YouTube or Apple Podcasts.
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How to Return Stolen Art (Update)
Museums are purging their collections of looted treasures. Can they also get something in return? And what does it mean to be a museum in the 21st century? (Part 3 of an updated series originally published in 2023.)
“I Trust Almost Anyone More Than Myself” | Better in Person
The Pulitzer Prize-winning novelist Jennifer Egan talks about confidence, luck, and why it takes 35 drafts to get to the finish line.
If you'd like to see the video version of Better in Person, you can watch it on YouTube or Apple Podcasts.
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Is a Museum Just a Trophy Case? (Update)
The world’s great museums are full of art and artifacts that were plundered during an era when plunder was the norm. Now there’s a push to return these works to their rightful owners. Sounds simple, right? It's not. (Part 2 of an updated series originally published in 2023.)
Meet Warren Zanes, the Author and Rocker Behind the Springsteen Movie | Better in Person
When he joined the Del Fuegos, his big brother’s band, all Warren knew how to play was a record player. Things went great for a while — and then it all fell apart. So how did he wind up writing definitive books on Springsteen and Tom Petty?
If you'd like to see the video version of Better in Person, you can watch it on YouTube or Apple Podcasts.
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The Case of the $4 Million Gold Coffin (Update)
How did a freshly looted Egyptian antiquity end up in the Metropolitan Museum of Art? Why did it take Kim Kardashian to crack the case? And how much of what you see in any museum is stolen? (Part 1 of “Stealing Art Is Easy. Giving It Back Is Hard,” first published in 2023.)
What if Being a Stranger Is Actually Your Superpower? | Better in Person
Angela Buchdahl was the first Asian American to be ordained as a rabbi, and now she is among the most influential rabbis in the world. She and Stephen Dubner talk about boundary-crossing, the aftermath of October 7, and whether you can be a good Jew without believing in God.
If you'd like to see the video version of Better in Person, you can watch it on YouTube or Apple Podcasts.
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684. He Helped Clean Up the Last Crash. Does He See Another One Coming?
Former S.E.C. chair Gary Gensler has had a front-row seat to numerous financial booms and busts. How does he feel about America’s massive bet on A.I.? “Something has to give.”
RESOURCES: This Time Is Different: Eight Centuries of Financial Folly, by Carmen Reinhart and Kenneth Rogoff (2011).
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Does it Take a Twisted Mind to Write Twisted Stories? | Better In Person
Harlan Coben doesn’t think so. The mega-best-selling author talks suburbia, impostor syndrome, and what he learned from his college friend David Foster Wallace.
If you'd like to see the video version of Better in Person, you can watch it on YouTube or Apple Podcasts.
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683. In the New Space Race, Who Makes the Rules?
Governments started the space age. Now, billionaires and private firms are reinventing it. Guest host Steve Levitt explores what the past can teach us about a high-stakes future. (Part two of a two-part series.)
How Gary Gulman Turned Depression Into Comedy Gold | Better in Person
Gary and Stephen talk about creativity, recovery, getting fired, and holding grudges. They also get outside and play basketball, which is a big part of how Gary stays well.
If you'd like to see the video version of Better in Person, watch it on YouTube or Apple Podcasts.
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682. Should A.I. Move to Space?
At first it sounds ridiculous. But it might be inevitable. Guest host Steve Levitt talks to a team that hopes to push A.I. infrastructure off the planet. Part one of a two-part series.)
SOURCES: Blaise Agüera y Arcas, vice president and fellow at Google, C.T.O. of technology and society. Travis Beals, senior director of product management at Google, Project Suncatcher lead. Will Marshall, co-founder and C.E.O. of Planet Labs.
RESOURCES: What Is Intelligence?, by Blaise Agüera y Arcas (2025). "Towards a future space-based, highly scalable AI infrastructure system desi...
Why Cooking is Caregiving, with Chef Hillary Sterling | Better in Person
Hillary Sterling was a Brooklyn kid raised on cream cheese sandwiches and canned potatoes. So how did she become one of New York City's best chefs? The Ci Siamo executive chef explains on the second episode of Better in Person.
If you'd like to see the video version of Better in Person, watch it on YouTube or Apple Podcasts.
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Are You Really Allergic to Penicillin? (Update)
Like tens of millions of people, Stephen Dubner thought he had a penicillin allergy. Like the vast majority, he didn’t. This misdiagnosis costs billions of dollars and causes serious health problems, so why hasn’t it been fixed? We find out in this update of a 2025 episode.
RESOURCES: Allergic: Our Irritated Bodies...
How a Great Architect Thinks, with Bjarke Ingels | Better in Person
Is the oxymoron really “the secret sauce to everything”? That’s the case Ingels makes in this debut episode of our new video show Better in Person, filmed in Stephen Dubner’s living room.
If you'd like to see the video version of Better in Person, watch it on YouTube or Apple Podcasts.
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681. How to Host a Talk Show, with Dick Cavett
Stephen Dubner had an idea for a new project. So he drove to Connecticut and knocked on the door of the master. Dubner’s new TV talk show Better in Person launches July 14 on the Freakonomics YouTube channel.
RESOURCES: Eye on Cavett, by Dick Cavett and Christopher Porterfield (1983). Cavett, by Dick Cavett and Christopher Porterfield (1974). "The Dick Cavett Show" YouTube Channel. "Better in Person" Trailer.
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680. Can Universities Win Back Our Trust?
Dartmouth president Sian Beilock, a psychologist by training, made her name studying why people choke. Now she’s applying those insights to one of the most scrutinized jobs in America. No pressure!
RESOURCES: "Growing share of Americans say the U.S. higher education system is headed in the wrong direction," by Kim Parker (Pew Research Center, 2025). "Standardized Test Scores and Academic Performance at Ivy-Plus Colleges," by John N. Friedman, Bruce Sacerdote, Douglas O. Staiger, and Michele Tine (NBER, 2025). "Americans’ Trust in One Another," by Laura Silver, Scott Keeter, Stepha...
679. Why Does Vanderbilt Keep Winning?
It’s a hard time to run a university: public trust is low, political pressure is high, and finances are fragile. But Daniel Diermeier, who trained as a political scientist, has Vanderbilt humming. How? He says the key is choosing magnets over wedges.
RESOURCES: "Higher Ed’s New Crisis Managers," by Lee Gardner (The Chronicle of Higher Education, 2026). "Professors Need to Diversify What They Teach," by Jon Shields, Yuval Avnur, and Stephanie Muravchik (Persuasion, 2025). "A Call for Constructive Engagement," (American Association of Colleges and Universities, 2025). "2020 Statement on Anthropology and Hu...
The World Is (Still) Drowning in Sludge
Insurance forms that make no sense. Subscriptions that can’t be cancelled. A never-ending blizzard of automated notifications. In this update of a 2025 episode, Stephen Dubner discovers where all this sludge comes from — and how much it’s costing us.
SOURCES: Benjamin Handel, professor of economics at UC Berkeley. Neale Mahoney, professor of economics at Stanford University. Richard Thaler, professor of economics at The University of Chicago.
RESOURCES: "Selling Subscriptions," by Liran Einav, Ben Klopack, and Neale Mahoney (Stanford University, 2023). "The ‘Enshittification’ of TikTok," by Cory Doctorow (WIRED, 2023). "Dominated Options in Health Insurance Plans," by Chenyuan...
678. Who Gets to Choose a “Good Death”?
New York is the latest state to legalize medical aid in dying. Stephen Dubner speaks with the governor who signed the law, a Nobel Prize-winning economist, a death doula — and an ethicist who thinks the very idea is wrong.
RESOURCES: Moral Economics: From Prostitution to Organ Sales, What Controversial Transactions Reveal About How Markets Work, by Al Roth (2026). "New York Move...
677. Can Backgammon Save Us from Ourselves?
It brings strangers together. It teaches probability, strategy, and emotional control. It has even helped N.F.L. teams win the Super Bowl. Stephen Dubner explores why this ancient game is having a renaissance. (Part two of a series, “We Are All Gamers Now.”)
RESOURCES: The Backgammon Chronicles: A Pro's Adventures on Tour Volume 1, by Robert Wachtel (2019). In the...
This Is Your Brain on Pollution (Update)
As the Trump administration rolls back environmental regulations, we revisit a 2022 episode that explored the hidden cost of an invisible threat: air pollution.
SOURCES: Angela Duckworth, psychologist at the University of Pennsylvania. Michael Greenstone, economist at the University of Chicago, director of the Energy Policy Institute, co-director of the Climate Impact Lab. Stephan Heblich, economist at the University of Toronto. Andrea La Nauze, economist at Deakin University. Steve Levitt, professor emeritus of economics at the University of Chicago. Edson Severnini, economist at Boston College.
RESOURCES: "Most Polluted Cities," (American Lung Association, 2026). "Air Pollution and Ad...
676. Has America Lost the Plot?
Another war in the Middle East. A retreat from the international order. A presidency built on self-dealing and arbitrary power. It’s enough to make you think the U.S. is in a steep decline — but Fareed Zakaria thinks otherwise.
RESOURCES: "Iran is an imperial trap. America walked right in." by Fareed Zakaria (The Washington Post, 2026). "‘Bomb and hope’ is not a strategy," by Fareed Zakaria (The Washington Post, 2026). Age of Revolutions: Progress and Backlash from 1600 to the Present, by Fareed Zakaria (2024). The Accidental Superpower: The Next Generation of American P...
The Vanishing Mr. Feynman (Update)
In his final years, Richard Feynman's curiosity took him to some surprising places. We hear from his companions on the trips he took — and one he wasn’t able to. (Part three of a three-part series originally published in 2024.)
SOURCES: Alan Alda, actor and screenwriter. Barbara Berg, friend of Richard Feynman. Helen Czerski, physicist and oceanographer at University College London. Michelle Feynman, photographer and daughter of Richard Feynman. Cheryl Haley, friend of Richard Feynman. Debby Harlow, friend of Richard Feynman. Ralph Leighton, biographer and film producer. Charles Mann, science journalist and author. John Preskill, professor of theoret...
The Brilliant Mr. Feynman (Update)
What happens when an existentially depressed and recently widowed young physicist from Queens gets a fresh start in California? We follow Richard Feynman out west, to explore his long and extremely fruitful second act. (Part two of a three-part series originally published in 2024.)
SOURCES: Seamus Blackley, video game designer and creator of the Xbox. Carl Feynman, computer scientist and son of Richard Feynman. Michelle Feynman, photographer and daughter of Richard Feynman. Ralph Leighton, biographer and film producer. Charles Mann, science journalist and author. John Preskill, professor of theoretical physics at the California Institute of Technology. Lisa R...
The Curious Mr. Feynman (Update)
From the Manhattan Project to the Challenger investigation, the physicist Richard Feynman loved to shoot down what he called “lousy ideas.” Today, the world is awash in lousy ideas — so maybe it’s time to get some more Feynman in our lives? (Part one of a three-part series originally published in 2024.)
SOURCES: Helen Czerski, physicist and oceanographer at University College London. Michelle Feynman, photographer and daughter of Richard Feynman. Ralph Leighton, biographer and film producer. Charles Mann, science journalist and author. John Preskill, professor of theoretical physics at the California Institute of Technology. Stephen Wolfram, founder and C.E.O...
675. Has the New York Times Become a Games Company?
Not exactly. But their runaway success with games like Wordle says something bigger about the way we live now. (Part one of a series, “We Are All Gamers Now.”)
RESOURCES: "Wordle Is a Love Story," by Daniel Victor (New York Times, 2022). The Rules We Break: Lessons in Play, Thinking, and Design, by Eric Zimmerman (2022). Thinking Inside the Bo...
674. How Does a Composer Feel After the World Premiere?
Great. Then depressed. Then great again. Stephen Dubner gets the full story from David Lang; we also hear from some fans, and the New York Philharmonic’s president. The math and the aftermath of wealth of nations. (Part two of a series.)
SOURCES: David Lang, composer and professor at the Yale School of Music. Matías Tarnopolsky, president and C.E.O. of the New York Philharmonic.
RESOURCES: "Finally, an Opera About Economics," by Stacey Vanek Smith (Bloomberg, 2026). "The Little Match Girl Passion," by David Lang (2023). The Wealth of Nations, by Adam Smith (1776).
E...
Was Adam Smith Really a Right-Winger? (Update)
Economists and politicians have turned him into a mascot for free-market ideology. Some on the left say the right has badly misread him. In this updated replay of a 2022 episode, we hold a very Smithy tug of war.
SOURCES: Eamonn Butler, co-founder and director of the Adam Smith Institute. Glory Liu, a political scientist and Adam Smith scholar at Georgetown University. Mariana Mazzucato, professor in the economics of innovation and public value at University College London. Dennis Rasmussen, a professor of political science at Syracuse University. Russ Roberts, president of Shalem College in in Jerusalem; host o...
673. What Is Money?
That’s what the Pulitzer Prize-winning composer David Lang wanted to learn. So he turned Adam Smith’s The Wealth of Nations into an oratorio. We tag along as Lang’s piece heads toward its world premiere with the New York Philharmonic. (Part one of a two-part series.)
SOURCES: Fleur Barron, opera singer and mezzo-soprano. David Lang, composer and professor at the Yale School of Music.
RESOURCES: "Finally, an Opera About Economics," by Stacey Vanek Smith (Bloomberg, 2026). "The Little Match Girl Passion," by David Lang (2023). The Wealth of Nations, by Adam Smith (1776).
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672. What Makes Judy Faulkner Run?
Epic Systems manages the electronic health records for hundreds of millions of people. This makes Faulkner a healthcare heavyweight and one of the most successful female entrepreneurs in history. So why haven’t we ever heard much from her? Stephen Dubner travels to Verona, Wisc., to explore the Faulknerverse.
SOURCES: Judy Faulkner, C.E.O. and founder of Epic Systems. Seth Howard, executive vice president of research and development at Epic Systems.
RESOURCES: "Epic Systems (MyChart)," by Acquired (2025). "Federal antitrust lawsuit against Wisconsin-based Epic Systems will move forward," by Joe Schulz (Wisconsin Public Radio, 2025). "Bill...
Why Does Everyone Hate Rats? (Update)
New York City’s mayor called them “public enemy number one.” History books say they caused the Black Death — although recent scientific evidence disputes that claim. In an updated episode from 2025, we ask: Is the rat a scapegoat? And what does our rat hatred say about us?
SOURCES: Bethany Brookshire, author of Pests: How Humans Create Animal Villains. Kathy Corradi, senior vice president of resident services, partnerships, and initiatives at the New York City Housing Authority. Ed Glaeser, professor of economics at Harvard University. Nils Stenseth, professor of ecology and evolution at the University of Oslo.
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