Math Therapy
Math Therapy explores the root causes of math trauma, and the empowering ways we can heal from it. Each week host Vanessa Vakharia, aka The Math Guru, dives into what we get right and wrong about math education, and chats with some of today’s most inspiring and visionary minds working to make math more accessible, diverse, and fun for students of all ages. Whether you think you’re a "math person" or not, you’re about to find out that math people don’t actually exist – but the scars that math class left on many of us, definitely do. And don’t w...
How math can help prison inmates turn their lives around w/ Christopher Havens
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Christopher Havens is a mathematician with published research in number theory, but what makes him unique among fellow scholars is his entire career in math has taken place in prison where he is serving a 25-year murder sentence. Math was the catalyst and ongoing foundation for his rehabilitation, and along the way he founded the Prison Mathematics Project which provides resources to inmates across the US.
In recognition of his years of rehabilitation, mathematical research, and community building, the Washington State Pardons & Clemency board unanimously recommended his s...
What neuroscience actually says about gender & math w/ Sarah McKay
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A lot of brain-related questions often come up on this podcast, like:
Is there a difference in math ability between genders?Is there even such a thing as a "math brain"?What about the left brain right brain / math vs creativity debate?And every time, Vanessa says "I need to speak to an expert about this!" Well, when she heard today's guest on the Mel Robbins Podcast talking about brain science and gender, she knew she had found her neuroscientist.
Dr. Sarah McKay joins Math...
How believing in someone can change their life w/ Jo Boaler’s first student Sue Besant
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Have you ever been so convinced you were bad at something that you didn’t even question it anymore? Not just as an insecurity, but like it was your full identity: “I’m not a math person.” End of conversation.
Well, this episode is about what happens when that story gets completely rewritten.
Sue Besant was a directionless student who was literally & repeatedly told that she would amount to nothing, and math was ground zero for this crushing message.
But one day a ne...
Don’t let math define your entire self-worth w/ Shelby Strong
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Whenever Vanessa talks to math educator and coach Shelby Strong, they end up saying "why didn't we record that, it was basically a podcast!" So today we bring you an actual podcast with Shelby, exploring an absolutely bonkers range of provocative questions like:
What’s the danger of defining your self-worth by being good at one thing?When does enthusiasm/passion cross the line into gatekeeping?Why are we vilifying algorithms right now?Why do we shame teachers for just trying their best?Why is systemic change so har...Can asking for help backfire?
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As you may know, Vanessa and producer David are in a band together, and they're currently writing songs for a new album. The path through writer’s block and their ups and downs as a collaborative team led to some unexpected debates about the creative process that share surprising parallels with the greater discussion around mathematical thinking.
So they hopped on the mic to debate a range of topics like:
When do tools help vs. hinder?Does process matter if the outcome is good?Are mathematical an...2026: The Year of Student Engagement!
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Happy new year! To get in the mindset for a great 2026, here's a motivating episode about one of last year's hottest topics in math ed: student engagement.
Why is it so hard to get students to really engage in the classroom? What does engagement even mean? What can we try differently this year?
In this episode, Vanessa explores four reasons students might not engage in class (and offers tips for each):
They don't feel heard (democratize engagement)They don't know...How Netflix saved both Christmas and math
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Five years ago, Vanessa fell head over heels in love with a Christmas movie. The plot twist? This wasn't one of the countless Hallmark romcoms she actually consumes throughout the year - this was a movie about a little girl who literally saves Christmas with math!
Back then she interviewed Producer Lyn Sisson-Talbert and Writer/Director David E. Talbert about their groundbreaking Netflix film Jingle Jangle, so we’re resharing the conversation today as Christmas approaches.
On that note, we'll be taking a break next wee...
How to make "show your thinking" less anxiety-inducing
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Getting students to think is a hot topic - but what does it actually mean? When kids are asked to "show their thinking", can we really blame them for being like "WTF?!?!"
Today on Math Therapy, Vanessa explores the surprising number of ways we can define & interpret "thinking", and shares 5 strategies to demystify it in the classroom:
Explain what thinking actually meansNormalize that the thought process isn't always quickGive prompts that invite students into a conversationOuter process - talk it out before writing it downModel your o...Math Therapy's 100th (& most manic) episode!
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Since our humble (and as you'll find out, quite disorganized) start in 2019, Math Therapy has come a long way ... and today we celebrate our 100th episode!
Join host Vanessa Vakharia and producer David Kochberg (with a cameo from OG MT producer Sabina Wex) as they reminisce and argue about:
The (mostly) true origin story of Math TherapyWhere the “final 2 questions” came fromFave past episodesDream future guestsIf ChatGPT listens to our showWhether you've been listening from the start or just finding this show now, thank you...
How to believe in yourself when nobody else will w/ Taylor Telfer-Thompson
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Today we follow-up last week's episode with unfiltered celeb moms Cat and Nat (listen here) by interviewing Nat's daughter Taylor! Currently in Grade 11, she's a wealth of hard-earned wisdom, having taken her education into her own hands to overcome a system that literally told her not to bother even trying.
This ep is overflowing with real lessons right from a student who's been through it all. Taylor describes:
how being "bad" at math really felt & how she decided to rewrite her narrativesmall supports that made a hu...Hard truths teachers need to hear from parents w/ Cat and Nat
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From the moment Vanessa met bestselling authors/podcasters Cat and Nat on Breakfast Television, where the 2 moms proudly professed to hate math ... she knew she had to have them on Math Therapy to dig deeper and find out why. They are the definition of unfiltered, so they are a perfect fit!
This interview may be uncomfortable for teachers to hear - honestly, it was difficult for Vanessa at times to not be defensive. But the fact is, we need to know what students and parents are really go...
Why we can’t binge-learn math like Netflix w/ Rob Baier
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*call-out before we get into today's ep* - If you or a colleague/parent/student has a story about incorporating the absurd 6-7 phenomenon into actual learning, we need you! Seriously, send us a brief text or a voicenote via Instagram DM or email. We've heard some stories and want to do an episode about enhancing learning by reaching kids through their interests (no matter how ridiculous we think they are...)
On today's episode w/ Rob Baier:
Vanessa often goes into ou...
What the Blue Jays taught us about math education
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This past weekend, hearts across North America shattered as the plucky underdog Toronto Blue Jays lost to the LA Dodgers in extra innings of the deciding Game 7 of the Major League Baseball World Series. And if none of those words matter to you at all - then you and Vanessa have much in common!
However, as a self-admitted bandwagon jumper, even though she was down in the US on a math ed conference tour, she was all in on this series and sucked a bunch of colleagues i...
How to turn anxiety into empowerment
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Most episodes, Vanessa is chatting with colleagues about the root causes of math anxiety/trauma and exploring how math education can change to avoid causing them.
But as long as math remains a 4-letter word for some, we need some practical coping strategies! So today, Vanessa details 5 ways you can flip anxious math moments into empowering ones - for teachers, parents, and students.
Learn how to:
Trade control for curiosityAdmit what you don't knowNot be afraid to follow tangents in classCoregulate before y...An unfiltered debate about "natural ability"
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Sometimes an interview fires us up so much here at Math Therapy HQ, that we end up debriefing and debating it long after the guest has signed off - at which point producer David says to host Vanessa "we should have recorded THAT too!"
So today, we actually did! We kept the mics rolling after interviewing last week's guest, Dr. Raj Shah, resulting in a discussion on the mechanics of memory & aptitude and a spirited debate as David pushed back against Vanessa's war on the words "natural a...
Why math sucks and how to fix it w/ Raj Shah
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What is memory? Are different brains good at memorizing different things (like math vs music)? Is memorization even a good way to learn? Why don’t we teach math like we teach reading? Why do we love puzzles and escape rooms but hate math class? Is it possible to make math learning fun?? Will Vanessa ever learn how to explain how to text the podcast?!?! How does this all relate to math trauma?!?!?!
Ok. Deep breaths. Today's ep with Dr. Raj Shah was a rollercoaster, as every ques...
Math ed needs more conversations like this w/ Pam Harris
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Today's ep ended up in a different place than Vanessa expected when she first sat down to chat with Pam Harris, founder of Math Is Figureoutable. Their first real interaction was on the DebateMath Podcast; Pam insisted that learning algorithms/shortcuts can actually hold students back from true learning, while Vanessa advocated for kids to learn however works for them.
Often, that's where it ends. Worse, especially in the "everyone yell at each other" media landscape, the conversation never begins! Which makes today's episode so refreshing - a...
The Comment Section w/ Mike Flynn
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We're trying something new this week! Last week's ep with Mike Flynn dove into some very murky debate waters: do students need to know the "why" of what their learning in order to truly understand material, or is it fine for them to just memorize things as long as they get the answers? (If you missed, scroll back in your feed or click here to catch up.)
But the real drama took place over on TikTok, where Vanessa posted a clip from the ep and some viewers en...
How to find the "why" in math class w/ Mike Flynn
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When Mike Flynn started teaching, math was just one of many subjects he had to guide his students through. The problem was, the way he was taught math made him hate it!
But when a new career opportunity gave him the chance at a much deeper understanding of the concepts and a reason "why" they mattered in the real world, Mike realized that he wasn't confined to just teaching the way he was taught - he could give students and teachers the chance to value math right fr...
Exclusive: Math Therapy audiobook sample for our listeners!
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If you follow Vanessa on Instagram, you know the rollercoaster she went on to record the audiobook version of Math Therapy ... well, the hard work / literal sweat & tears paid off because it is now out! You can find it on Audible/Amazon right now, and if you have never used Audible you can likely get it for a free credit with their new trial offer. (It will be on Spotify soon as well, let us know if there's any other platform it should be added to.)
We w...
Why 1 + 1 isn't always 2 w/ Eugenia Cheng
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Have you ever felt like it's impossible to win an argument with someone, or even simply see eye to eye on anything? On today's episode, mathematician Eugenia Cheng joins Vanessa to challenge the black-and-white thinking that often defines our world - especially in math class.
3 Key Topics Discussed:
Why seemingly silly questions like "is math real?" or "when does 1 + 1 not equal 2?" are both valid and valuableHow Eugenia works to help people overcome math trauma the way she o...5 simple Math Therapy strategies for your classroom (weekly podcast launch!)
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Today we celebrate back to school week with ... the official launch of Math Therapy as a weekly podcast!
On today's episode, Vanessa catches you up on everything going on in Math Therapy-land, and shares 5 very simple and quick strategies that teachers can employ to make this year's classroom more empowering - both for students and themselves.
5 low-lift Math Therapy strategies for the new school year:
Watch your facial expressionsWatch your languageAsk students about their thinking processGet on your student's level - literallyAsk s...How Math Therapy changed my entire life w/ Charizma Laughton
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As long as Charizma Laughton can remember, her entire life was defined by a singular identity: she's bad at math, because she's not smart. This self-image was rooted in deeply traumatic math class experiences that completely dismantled her self-confidence and made her feel like she was simply not capable of ... anything.
BUT THEN: she and Vanessa met after a yoga class in Bali recently, and after a mere two weeks of math therapy sessions together, Charizma had done a complete 180 (see what we d...
How to trust your intuition w/ Rebecca MacLeod
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First of all, big news: as of this fall, Math Therapy will be a weekly podcast! This has long been a goal, so after 6 glorious 10-episode seasons and a bunch of bonus eps along the way, we'll be hitting your feed every single Thursday starting September.
For now, we are back this month with 2 special interviews we recorded earlier in the year with some friends we made in Bali, Indonesia. (Next week's episode will legit blow your mind!!)
Today, Vanessa explores the power of intuition an...
Bonus: What's your sign? (Vanessa has no clue)
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Given how much Vanessa talks about astrology on the podcast, what do you think her success rate was for guessing the star signs of all the guests last season? Today's episode (guest "hosted" by producer David) reveals all ... and also drops some hints about what to expect from this podcast in the coming months!
Show notes:
Math Therapy the book - buy from Corwin Press or AmazonS5 outtakes: The Awkward GoodbyeContact us:
Vanessa Vakharia: Instagram, TikTok, EmailGet the politicians out of the classroom w/ David Kochberg
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If you're a fan of the podcast, you've often heard Vanessa mention our producer "David" in reference to him getting mad at her for yelling into the mic or hitting the mic or generally doing things that impact the quality of this AUDIO medium. And if it isn't apparent, this is actually David typing, because I also handle publishing the episodes, so I'll stop referring to myself in the 3rd person because it's weird!
In September we released an episode in which I interviewed Vanessa about her c...
We're not teaching content, we're teaching students w/ Kevin Dykema
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Having attended and presented at the annual NCTM (National Council of Teachers of Mathematics) conference, Vanessa reached out to "famously nice guy" Kevin Dykema, the organization's President, to learn more about his journey to the top. Along the way she was surprised to learn that even he battles imposter syndrome, and the way he's learned to deal with it is by "learning what he doesn't know" and not being afraid to reach out for help.
Today's conversation covered the pros and cons of professional development, advice on h...
Math Therapy is now a book! Vanessa tells all ...
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HUGE news - Math Therapy is now a book! Vanessa has taken everything she's learned in her career helping students overcome math trauma, and all the insights from the 6 seasons of this podcast, and formulated a 5-step process to bring math therapy into classrooms and help all students develop a better relationship with math.
To celebrate, Math Therapy producer David Kochberg turned the mic around and interviewed Vanessa about how Math Therapy started in the first place, what gives her hope about the future of math education, a...
We are born to love math w/ Dan Finkel
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Dan Finkel is an author/educator who believes that humans are wired to be curious from birth, and that play is the secret to maintaining that joy of learning throughout childhood. On today’s season 6 finale, he and Vanessa discuss how teaching kids about math can be so much more fun than we think; it can mean playing board games, counting on their fingers, anything that helps them develop an intuitive sense that there are patterns and structures in the world for them to discover. They also discuss how pla...
Grit is your superpower w/ Dr. India White
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Dr. India White learned grit and resilience the hard way: facing down obstacles throughout her life and deciding she wouldn’t back down. Now she coaches teachers and students on developing their own gritty superpowers, and she joins Vanessa today for wide-ranging and inspiring conversation. They discuss her journey from a homeless shelter to a college dorm, how equity is about so much more than just race, and the power of lifting each other up as an antidote to fear.
About India:
(Website, Twitter, Ins...
How to change someone's mind w/ Chris Luzniak
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What if the secret to winning a debate was actually listening to your opponent? What if you could build confidence and overcome anxiety through the practice of public speaking? And HOW does someone go from dreams of Broadway fame to teaching debate in math class?! Find out today as Vanessa chats with math educator/coach Chris Luzniak, host of The DebateMath Podcast!
About Chris (Website, Twitter, Instagram)
Chris Luzniak is an international math consultant and instructional coach. While teaching in New York City public sc...
Math doesn't cause trauma, people do w/ Sean Nank
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When Vanessa saw today’s guest deliver a deeply personal talk at a recent math conference, she was left with more questions than answers; all she knew for certain was she had to get him on the podcast. Sean Nank is a math educator who believes that the power of our students' stories is the most valuable tool we can harness in our math classrooms, and he illustrates this by sharing his own journey of growing up in an abusive environment, learning to understand and embrace his OCD, and the...
Turns out some folks hate math w/ Jon Orr & Kyle Pearce
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Today’s another one for the teachers, featuring Jon Orr & Kyle Pearce of the Make Math Moments empire - they have a podcast, a framework, workshops & courses & virtual summits galore, and who knows probably even a cooking show at this point?! They join Vanessa today to discuss the SHOCKING realization early in their career that not all students would be as excited about math as they were … which propelled them to adapt their teaching methods to fuel curiosity in kids so they don’t just get the right answers, but rat...
Teachers have trauma too w/ Brittany Hege
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We’re often talking about trauma from the student perspective: how it happens in the classroom, and how it follows them into adulthood. But one group is often overlooked in this discussion - teachers!
Today Vanessa chats with educator Brittany Hege about the challenges teachers often face in keeping up with changing pedagogies, while already being strapped for time and often struggling with math traumas of their own! This is an honest and heartfelt discussion about how education can evolve without leaving either students or teach...
More clickbait in the classroom! w/ Howie Hua
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Of the truly infinite things Vanessa likes to rant about, few top the list like math’s marketing problem - which is why she was elated to chat with social media mathstar Howie Hua!
Today Howie shares how his own experiences with math anxiety sucked the joy out of math when he was a student, and how he started to bring it back for both himself and his students when he became a teacher. He’s built a massive following on TikTok and beyond by sharing quick and fu...
The spiritual side of math w/ Francis Su
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When you picture a mathematician, what comes to mind? Now … what about a “mathematical explorer”? Well, that’s what Francis Su calls himself, and when Vanessa picked up his book Mathematics for Human Flourishing, she couldn’t put it down.
On today's episode they explore how mathematical discovery can unleash the wonder and curiosity innate within us all. They also discuss some deep questions, like why do people have different emotional reactions to math compared to other fields? How can humans cultivate the virtues we'll need to keep AI in che...
Tell your students you trust them w/ Zak Champagne
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Longtime listeners (like today’s guest, as you’ll discover…) will recall one name popping up in almost every interview last season, so Vanessa needed to find out for herself: who is Zak Champagne & why do people like him so much?! Through today’s rollercoaster episode she discovered a teacher with boundless enthusiasm for the joys of teaching, grounded in a deep respect for his students.
They unpack what we really mean by terms like “student voice” and “building trust”, offer practical advice on how to actually integrate those i...
The difference between equity & equality w/ Dr. Pamela Seda
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On the Season 6 premiere of Math Therapy, Vanessa chats with Dr. Pamela Seda, an expert in all things education and inspiration! They dive deep into hot topics like how teachers can build trust in the classroom by modelling vulnerability, the benefits of cultivating community over competition, and a fascinating metaphor that illustrates what equity and accommodations truly mean in our schools.
About Pam (Website, Insta, Twitter, Facebook, LinkedIn)
Dr. Pamela Seda, Founder and CEO of Seda Educational Consulting, is the c...
Season 6 Trailer
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Season 6 drops March 28th - here’s a sample of who and what you’ll hear!
Contact us:
Vanessa Vakharia: Instagram, TikTok, Email Math Therapy: Text the PodcastMore Math Therapy:
Get the book: Corwin, Amazon Audiobook: Audible, Spotify Merch store: Shop hereRefresher: Pi Day in Prison
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It's March 14th, aka 3.14 ... so Happy Pi Day! To help you get in the zone, we're re-airing an episode from last year recounting the Math Therapy team's Pi Day 2023 trip to Bellamy Creek Correctional Facility in Michigan. This stemmed from Vanessa's Season 3, Episode 10 interview with Christopher Havens, an inmate serving a 25-year sentence for murder who has rehabilitated himself with math and founded the Prison Mathematics Project.
Find out more about PMP at prisonmathproject.org where you can:
