The Long and The Short Of It
A weekly podcast for curious people ready to explore the art and science of being human from every possible angle: macro, micro, Australian, American, tall, short and everything in between.
390. Normal
This week, Jen and Pete define (and redefine, and redefine, and redefine) the concept of what it means to be normal.
Specifically, in this episode Jen and Pete talk about:
What is the relationship between normal and average? When might it be a good thing to be normal? When might it be a good thing to not be normal? How might we push back against normalcy, where we want to be extraordinary?To hear all episodes and read full transcripts, visit The Long and The Short Of It website: https://thelongandtheshortpodcast.com/.
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389. Aspirational Prototyping
This week, Jen shares with Pete a new phrase she's coined, in order to turn dreams into aspirational prototypes.
Specifically, in this episode Jen and Pete talk about:
How might we move inch by inch towards our goal? In what ways might defining the perfect day or week or schedule or calendar be useful to us? What are some different ways to think about the relationships in our lives, our goals for the next ten years, and our overarching dreams of what our reality could be?To hear all episodes and read full transcripts, visit...
388. Zone 2
Inspired by another learning from his triathlon, Pete shares with Jen a training technique, and both of them noodle on what it might look like to work within Zone 2 (and not constantly overexerting in Zone 5).
Specifically, in this episode Jen and Pete talk about:
What are the five zones of energy and effort? Why is it important to take periods of rest? How might a more continuous method of training be more efficient and impactful than a high intensity one?To hear all episodes and read full transcripts, visit The Long and The Short Of...
387. Revising Goals
This week, Jen and Pete noodle on a mental framework in which they revisit and recommit, or revise, or replace, or remove the goals they've set for themselves this year (which leaves them feeling re-invigorated, re-energized, and re-inspired).
Specifically, in this episode Jen and Pete talk about:
How might we add and consider the context surrounding our goals? How might we reframe a pivot away from a certain goal as not a failure but a learning? What are some tactics to give ourselves more grace in the journey towards our goals?To hear all episodes a...
386. Physio
This week, Pete shares with Jen some wisdom from his physio, and together, they noodle on how their leadership may be more simple, practical, and elegant.
Specifically, in this episode Jen and Pete talk about:
When might it be best to give direction versus ask a question?What are some practical ways to simplify the learnings we are trying to give to our clients or colleagues?In what ways can we practice being more efficient and elegant?To hear all episodes and read full transcripts, visit The Long and The Short Of It website: https...
385. Fear Reminder
Throwing back to an idea from Episode One, Jen reminds Pete of the question: Is your fear keeping you safe, or is it keeping you stuck?
Specifically, in this episode Jen and Pete talk about:
How might we notice and call out our own fears?Why might it be helpful to hear about other people's fears?What are some tactics we can use to confront and push through the fear that is keeping us stuck?To hear all episodes and read full transcripts, visit The Long and The Short Of It website: https://thelongandtheshortpodcast.com/.<...
384. Writing
After listening to James Clear talk on the habit of writing, Pete talks with Jen about their writing practices, and how he might investigate new and old ways of writing and thinking.
Specifically, in this episode Jen and Pete talk about:
How might the act of writing help us change up our patterns of thinking?How might we give up the idea of having to be perfect on our first try?What is Pete's writing practice? And Jen's?To hear all episodes and read full transcripts, visit The Long and The Short Of It website...
383. Reframing Tonsilitis
As Pete prepares to have his tonsils removed, he asks Jen for mental frameworks he can use during his two-week recovery.
Specifically, in this episode Jen and Pete talk about:
How might we use our internal google translator to switch negative language into positive action?How might we switch the words "have to" to "get to"?When life throws us a curveball, how might we embrace this unexpected path?To hear all episodes and read full transcripts, visit The Long and The Short Of It website: https://thelongandtheshortpodcast.com/.
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382. What To Do?
As Jen confronts an upcoming change, she asks Pete for advice and questions to help shift the framework of her status quo.
Specifically, in this episode Jen and Pete talk about:
What does success look like?How might we reframe a problem as the best possible thing that could happen?Where might we be able to challenge our own assumptions and rules?To hear all episodes and read full transcripts, visit The Long and The Short Of It website: https://thelongandtheshortpodcast.com/.
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381. Books
Looking at his reading list for the year ahead, Pete asks Jen about her processes for selecting and reading books.
Specifically, in this episode Jen and Pete talk about:
How might we enable ourselves to quit reading a book that isn't exciting to us?Where might we look for the next book to read?How might we examine the list of books we've already read, and use that to guide the future of our reading selections?To hear all episodes and read full transcripts, visit The Long and The Short Of It website: https://thelongandtheshortpodcast...
380. 2026
This week, Jen and Pete go through their intentions, phrases, and things they are thinking about in preparing for the year ahead.
Specifically, in this episode Jen and Pete talk about:
How do Jen and Pete reflect on the past year, in order to look ahead?How is an unexpected unknown shaping Jen's year?What intention is Pete going to set for his upcoming year?To hear all episodes and read full transcripts, visit The Long and The Short Of It website: https://thelongandtheshortpodcast.com/.
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379. Have a Goal
In the final days of 2025, Jen and Pete noodle on what should be the top priority to have prepared as we move in to 2026.
Specifically, in this episode Jen and Pete talk about:
Why is it important to have an idea of what success looks like for you?What is an outcome goal? What is a process goal?How might we measure and take an audit of our existing assets?To hear all episodes and read full transcripts, visit The Long and The Short Of It website: https://thelongandtheshortpodcast.com/.
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378. Favo(u)rite Things: 2025
In their annual tradition, Jen and Pete list their very favo(u)rite things of 2025.
Specifically, in this episode Jen and Pete talk about their favo(u)rite:
Fiction book.Non-fiction book.Podcast.TLATSOI episode.Thing they watched.Motto.Thing they discovered about themselves.To hear all episodes and read full transcripts, visit The Long and The Short Of It website: https://thelongandtheshortpodcast.com/.
You can subscribe to our Box O’ Goodies here (https://thelongandtheshortpodcast.com/) and receive a weekly email full of book and podcast recommendations, quotes, videos, and other interesting things th...
377. Relative Effort
Coining a new term, Jen introduces Pete to the idea of, while working on a project, considering the relative effort of both the creator and the receiver.
Specifically, in this episode Jen and Pete talk about:
What is relative effort? What is relative risk?How might we ship things without the pressure of absolute perfection?Why might we think about the worst case scenario or fear, in order to move a project along?To hear all episodes and read full transcripts, visit The Long and The Short Of It website: https://thelongandtheshortpodcast.com/.
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376. Cadence
In Pete's version of an episode about running, he noodles with Jen about the idea of cadence, and how to break our routines projects into smaller steps.
Specifically, in this episode Jen and Pete talk about:
What does "cadence" mean, and how might we apply the idea to our everyday lives?Why is it better to not rush to the finish line, either while running or working? How might we return to the basics in our work and creative processes?To hear all episodes and read full transcripts, visit The Long and The Short Of I...
375. The Perspectives Wheel
Jen shares a framework with Pete for thinking about many different perspectives at once, as opposed to sticking with the first perspective you might think up.
Specifically, in this episode Jen and Pete talk about:
How might you choose to believe in a perspective that is most beneficial to yourself?Why is considering many different perspectives a version of sonder?How might we broaden our idea of multiple perspectives in order to increase our level of empathy for others?To hear all episodes and read full transcripts, visit The Long and The Short Of It...
374. Competent or Complacent?
After a small existential crisis, Pete asks Jen how he might tell the difference between being competent or complacent.
Specifically, in this episode Jen and Pete talk about:
What is the relationship between boredom, competency, and complacency?How might the repetition of a workshop, keynote, or show create an illusion of complacency?Why is having a coach, mentor, or trusted friend important in the viewing of your own work?To hear all episodes and read full transcripts, visit The Long and The Short Of It website: https://thelongandtheshortpodcast.com/.
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373. The Six Points of Focus
This week, Jen teaches Pete her framework of six points of focus, to help grow your career towards your goals.
Specifically, in this episode Jen and Pete talk about focus in relationship to:
Artistry and Inspiration.Industry Knowledge.Marketing.Mindset.Network Building.Skill and Craft.To hear all episodes and read full transcripts, visit The Long and The Short Of It website: https://thelongandtheshortpodcast.com/.
You can subscribe to our Box O’ Goodies here (https://thelongandtheshortpodcast.com/) and receive a weekly email full of book and podcast recommendations, quotes, videos, and other interesting th...
372. Lessons from a Triathlon
After completing his first triathlon, Pete shares with Jen some learning that he found in training, and while swimming, biking, and running.
Specifically, in this episode Jen and Pete talk about:
Why is there power in acting as if?How might we more actively encourage and appreciate each other?What does it mean to taper?To hear all episodes and read full transcripts, visit The Long and The Short Of It website: https://thelongandtheshortpodcast.com/.
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371. Shark Week
This week, Jen and Pete noodle on the question, what if every week was Shark Week (i.e. what if we stopped tying conventional constraints to enjoying the things we love or want to accomplish)?
Specifically, in this episode Jen and Pete talk about:
Why might we link certain constraints to tasks we want to accomplish?How might we commit to our goals in non-traditional ways?What is Jen going to do more of, regardless of the time of year? And Pete?To hear all episodes and read full transcripts, visit The Long and The...
370. Collegial
This week, Jen and Pete noodle on the negative aspects of being collegial, and how they might favor challenge instead.
Specifically, in this episode Jen and Pete talk about:
How might teams align on their why and their goals?What tools might we utilize to introduce more coaching into our work environments?How might feedback be utilized as a way to challenge and brainstorm and fight against FOPO?To hear all episodes and read full transcripts, visit The Long and The Short Of It website: https://thelongandtheshortpodcast.com/.
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369. The OK Plateau
This week, Jen and Pete noodle on the plateaus we might reach within certain skill sets, and how we might nudge ourselves forward.
Specifically, in this episode Jen and Pete talk about:
What is the OK Plateau?How might we push ourselves into situations that might make us afraid or uncomfortable, in order to build skill?What are some tools or tactics that might provide incremental increases of improvement?To hear all episodes and read full transcripts, visit The Long and The Short Of It website: https://thelongandtheshortpodcast.com/.
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368. Kicking Cans
This week, Jen confronts a metaphorical can that she's been kicking down the road for several months, and she and Pete noodle on where else these cans might show up in our lives.
Specifically, in this episode Jen and Pete talk about:
How might we name and tackle certain decisions or projects that we've been delaying?What effect does fear of other people's opinions have on our actions?Why might lessening the amount of cans you're kicking actually lead to more success?To hear all episodes and read full transcripts, visit The Long and The...
367. Tool Kits
This week, Pete and Jen dive in to the idea of auditing your leadership tool kit, to help you solve problems and become more efficient.
Specifically, in this episode Jen and Pete talk about:
What are some tactics you might use to evaluate and assess your various skill sets?Why is it important to borrow ideas, questions, and tools from other leaders?How might we become more aware of our tool kits, so that we can reuse the tools we have in difficult conversations?To hear all episodes and read full transcripts, visit The Long...
366. Momentum Mindset
This week, Jen and Pete noodle on a topic that they were both surprised to have never recorded an episode on: momentum.
Specifically, in this episode Jen and Pete talk about:
What is momentum mindset?How might we turn an ending into a beginning?Why is it important to not sit around and wait for motivation or inspiration?To hear all episodes and read full transcripts, visit The Long and The Short Of It website: https://thelongandtheshortpodcast.com/.
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365. Value Add AI
With AI being a pervasive topic in 2025, Jen and Pete discuss how they use the tool, and how they might utilize it to help their clients.
Specifically, in this episode Jen and Pete talk about:
How might we use AI to help other people, not just ourselves?Why is trust so important, in the building of skills and of organizations?What are several use cases for how Jen and Pete use AI?To hear all episodes and read full transcripts, visit The Long and The Short Of It website: https://thelongandtheshortpodcast.com/.
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364. Into the Woods
After a week in the woods working on a creative project, Jen brings Pete the lessons she brought back around building something new.
Specifically, in this episode Jen and Pete talk about:
Why is it important to have an agenda, and other constraints, when working on a project?What role do collaborators place in the creation of something new?What tactics might we utilize in sharing a work-in-progress with an audience?To hear all episodes and read full transcripts, visit The Long and The Short Of It website: https://thelongandtheshortpodcast.com/.
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363. Curious Leader
After being taken by surprise by a question in a workshop, Pete noodles with Jen on what it looks like to show up as the opposite of a curious leader, and how we might return to a more curious state.
Specifically, in this episode Jen and Pete talk about:
What does it mean to be curious? What tactics might we utilize to spur curiosity?How might you rely on your team, to give you feedback about when you are at your best and worst?To hear all episodes and read full transcripts, visit The Long a...
362. Running 2025
In their annual tradition, Jen talks to Pete about ways in which running (or not running) has taught her about life.
Specifically, in this episode Jen and Pete talk about:
How might we decide whether or not to take action on something that is hard or painful?What opportunities might arise from saying no to something?Why is it important to revisit the reasons behind our practices and routines?To hear all episodes and read full transcripts, visit The Long and The Short Of It website: https://thelongandtheshortpodcast.com/.
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361. Making Friends
This week, Jen and Pete dive into a topic that seems to get harder as we get older: making new friends.
Specifically, in this episode Jen and Pete talk about:
What might be some tactics for making new friends, as an adult?Why do we have friends, and do we need more of them?How might we dedicate time and effort to the task of making friends?To hear all episodes and read full transcripts, visit The Long and The Short Of It website: https://thelongandtheshortpodcast.com/.
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360. Lower Back Pain
For the first time in three years, Pete is free of lower back pain, and he shares with Jen his journey and learnings on his way to healing.
Specifically, in this episode Jen and Pete talk about:
Why might we hide from our problems by creating a self-diagnosis?How can we work on discovering what our problems actually are?Who are the people in our lives who might serve as mentors and coaches?To hear all episodes and read full transcripts, visit The Long and The Short Of It website: https://thelongandtheshortpodcast.com/.
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359. Building Skills
This week, Pete and Jen return to basics, and ask the questions: How is it that we build skills?
Specifically, in this episode Jen and Pete talk about:
Are there finite and infinite skills?How might we coach and lead groups of people to build skills?How might we return to basics and question the methods we use every day?To hear all episodes and read full transcripts, visit The Long and The Short Of It website: https://thelongandtheshortpodcast.com/.
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358. Caramelized Onions
This week, Jen shares an aha moment with Pete that she learned during the intensive process of caramelizing onions.
Specifically, in this episode Jen and Pete talk about:
Why might efficiency not always be the best route to an end goal?What can we learn by practicing patience, and not rushing?What are some tactics for continuing with a project when it seems uncertain?To hear all episodes and read full transcripts, visit The Long and The Short Of It website: https://thelongandtheshortpodcast.com/.
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357. Overappreciation
This week, Jen and Pete focus on appreciation being an added bonus, and not an intention, in creating a project or developing an idea.
Specifically, in this episode Jen and Pete talk about:
How might we think about appreciation, in relationship to our work?In what ways might we unintentionally be working for an outcome of appreciation? How might we shift our thinking towards solving problems and showing up through our work?To hear all episodes and read full transcripts, visit The Long and The Short Of It website: https://thelongandtheshortpodcast.com/.
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356. Back on Track
This week, Jen and Pete noodle on the notion of habits, and why some might be easier to reignite than others.
Specifically, in this episode Jen and Pete talk about:
What happens when we let a habit get off track?How does our environment effect our habits?How might we keep our habits by reducing their scope?To hear all episodes and read full transcripts, visit The Long and The Short Of It website: https://thelongandtheshortpodcast.com/.
You can subscribe to our Box O’ Goodies here (https://thelongandtheshortpodcast.com/) and receive a weekly em...
355. What the FOOC?
In exploring the relationship between goal setting and practicality, Jen and Pete noodle on all things related to opportunity cost and rule development.
Specifically, in this episode Jen and Pete talk about:
What is opportunity cost, and what might the fears be that surround that?How might we set a minimum engagement fee for ourselves?What are some strategies we can use to be more practical, when deciding on our goals?To hear all episodes and read full transcripts, visit The Long and The Short Of It website: https://thelongandtheshortpodcast.com/.
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354. Land Snorkeling
This week, Jen tells Pete all about her new hobby, and together they dive in to the positive aspects of snorkeling on land.
Specifically, in this episode Jen and Pete talk about:
What lessons from snorkeling in the sea can be brought to land?What are some areas we may take for granted in our lives?How might we renew our curiosity and observance of our surroundings?To hear all episodes and read full transcripts, visit The Long and The Short Of It website: https://thelongandtheshortpodcast.com/.
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353. Q&As
This week, Pete and Jen noodle on the practice of question and answer sessions, including their importance and the possible fears surrounding the unknown.
Specifically, in this episode Jen and Pete talk about:
What are some tactics and tips to host a successful question and answer session?How might we answer a question that we may not know the answer to?How might hearing questions from your audience allow you to gauge what is most important to address?To hear all episodes and read full transcripts, visit The Long and The Short Of It website...
352. Geniuses Are Humans
This week, Jen and Pete reflect on how grateful they are for their clients, and what they can do when a genius is standing in front of them, ready to be coached.
Specifically, in this episode Jen and Pete talk about:
Why might a person who is excellent at their craft crave further guidance from a coach?What are some tactics and strategies for coaching a genius?How might ego stand in the way of coaching or leading?To hear all episodes and read full transcripts, visit The Long and The Short Of It website...
351. Enough
This week, Pete and Jen explore the idea of what is "enough", and how we might think about who that enough is for.
Specifically, in this episode Jen and Pete talk about:
How does the definition of what is enough change based on context?Why might there be societal pressure to do more than enough?How might we allow ourselves to examine what is enough, at bare minimum?To hear all episodes and read full transcripts, visit The Long and The Short Of It website: https://thelongandtheshortpodcast.com/.
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