The Contrarians

It would be disingenuous to talk about SERENITY without addressing the Whedonesque Elephant in the ship, so to speak. So, yes, this Real Talk segment devotes some time to the rise and fall of the Whedon brand. But we also talk about Serenity itself, and how it works for someone who’s not familiar with the show versus how it works for a hardcore Firefly fan. Can you enjoy the movie if you didn’t care for the show? It’s all answered here!

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00:01:26 I aim to misbehave

00:02:34 Real Talk

00:56:12 The Fu...

The year was 2005 and Joss Whedon decided to audition for a spot among Big Hollywood Blockbuster Directors. He submitted SERENITY for our collective consideration and it didn’t quite light the world on fire, despite its passionate fanbase - who would’ve thought a movie based on a short-lived cult show wouldn’t break box office records? Still, it’s fresh on the Tomatometer, so it’ll get the Contrarians Treatment!

(Patrons: check your feeds for a discussion about FIREFLY that leads right into this episode.)

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00:01:24 Serenity

00:14:37 Contrarians Corner

- Wanna...

The actual title is DOMINION: PREQUEL TO THE EXORCIST, which really rolls off the tongue, doesn’t it? Anyway, we continue paying our Livestream for the Cure debt by doing a commentary on the Paul Schrader version of the fourth Exorcist movie - which happens to be the one you can watch for free!

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Director Nick Cassavetes has a penchant for successfully manipulating audiences into loving movies most critics scoff at. That explains the disconnect between JOHN Q’s 26% Tomatometer score and its 78% Popcornmeter score. Of course, we live in a world where half the American population low-key celebrated the death of a healthcare company’s CEO so we shouldn’t be surprised most regular folk sided with Denzel on this one. Lots to talk about in this Real Talk segment!

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00:01:26 You have to look in the mirror

00:02:24 Real Talk

00:52:25 The Future & Patreon Stuff

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More than 20 years before Luigi Mangione became a controversial celebrity, Denzel Washington was taking on the American healthcare system in JOHN Q - a thrilling hostage flick that might have been a bit too challenging for movie critics, leading to a rotten 26% Tomatometer score. Listen to Alex & Julio as they discuss the many twists and turns embedded in health insurance and wonder if it’s okay to still like James Woods as an actor.

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00:01:24 John Q

00:06:44 Contrarians Corner

- Wanna know how we really feel about JOHN Q? Check out th...

To tackle Michael Radford’s NINETEEN EIGHTY-FOUR on the sixth installment of Fresh Immigrants, Rotten Fascists almost feels like a cliche. But then, isn’t the current political climate in America a bundle of tired authoritarian tropes anyway? And so we dive into this bleak adaptation of Orwell’s dystopian tale and marvel at how it predicted Fox News - among other things.

Thank you for checking this new project out, whether you are a long-time Contrarians fan or someone who’s just trying to listen to people talking positively about immigrants and negatively about fascism. If you have...

Regardless of where your allegiances lie - with Ivan, Felix, or Lola - odds are that you’ll have a good time watching OFFICIAL COMPETITION. That is, of course, unless the movie’s relentless focus on rehearsals turns you off. Or you could have a problem with the complete absence of sympathetic characters in the cast. Was that the case for one or both of The Contrarians? Listen to this Real Talk segment to find out!

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00:01:26 Pobres muchachos

00:02:19 Real Talk

00:55:54 The Future & Patreon Stuff

- Interested in more Cont...

Breaking news: successful filmmakers and actors are very likely to be pretentious tools completely disconnected from reality. We’ve known this for over a century, so did we really need a movie that’s exclusively about that? The team behind OFFICIAL COMPETITION thought so, and critics agreed, stamping a 96% Tomatometer score on it. That means it’s time for The Contrarians to bring Penelope Cruz, Antonio Banderas, and Oscar Martinez down to Earth! Listen to Alex & Julio as they try to figure out if they can even pick a side in this three-way conflict.

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00:01:24 Offici...

44 INCH CHEST isn’t particularly gory, nasty, or offensive. It’s pretty foul-mouthed, but not to the point where THAT would tank its chances with critics and audiences. So is it a bit of a whiff because most people have trouble caring for Ray Winstone and his friends? Are they too reprehensible to elicit any sympathy? We try to figure it out in this Real Talk segment!

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00:01:26 Let’s hope it’s heads

00:02:27 Real Talk

00:44:16 The Future & Patreon Stuff

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You thought John Wayne was problematic last episode? We’ve got five British powerhouses ready to give him a run for his money in the criminally underrated 44 INCH CHEST! The movie’s 40% Tomatometer score seems to reflect people’s inability to cope with bad behavior when it’s not traditionally scolded, so listen to Alex & Julio try to be open-minded and give Ray Winstone a shot!

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00:01:24 44 Inch Chest

00:14:52 Contrarians Corner

- Wanna know how we really feel about 44 INCH CHEST? Check out the Real Talk (RT) episode, on your feed RIGHT NO...

Merry Christmas! We continue paying our Livestream For The Cure debt by watching THE EXORCIST III and chatting all throughout it. It qualifies as a Christmas movie because It’s a Wonderful Life plays a role in the story - and isn’t that all that matters?

- Interested in more Contrarians goodness? Join THE CONTRARIANS SUPPLEMENTS on our Patreon Page! Deleted clips, extended plugs, bonus episodes free from the Tomatometer shackles… It’s everything a Contrarians devotee would want!

- Our YouTube page is live! Get some visual Contrarians delight with our Contrarians Warm-Ups and othe...

Yes, of course THE SEARCHERS is not the Unforgiven of the 50s - but was it even trying to be? Can we set aside the things our modern eyes flag as regressive and appreciate the movie on its own terms? Do you need to be a John Wayne superfan to truly enjoy this John Wayne vehicle? What will our favorite movies look like to podcasters of the future? Let’s get it all out in this Real Talk segment!

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00:01:26 That’ll be the day

00:02:01 Real Talk

00:47:01 The Future & Patreon Stuff

It is SO America to have a problematic movie star as the ultimate icon of the quintessential American genre. And even worse: take John Wayne’s reputation out of the equation, and John Ford’s THE SEARCHERS can barely register as a serviceable Western. So it’s not just that Ford’s romanticizing of cowboy life is dated - it’s also boring, and a little cheesy when it goes for full emotion. Listen to Alex & Julio as they try to figure out if The Duke made his own brother a cuckold!

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00:01:24 The Searchers

00:1...

The fifth installment of Fresh Immigrants, Rotten Fascists introduces us to the Yi family - Korean immigrants chasing the American dream in Arkansas, led by patriarch Jacob (Steven Yeun). MINARI was a bit of an awards darling in the midst of COVID, and it even nabbed a Best Supporting Actress Oscar for Youn Yuh-jung for her role as the family’s disruptive grandma. So get some kimchi to snack on, and listen to us discuss the trials and tribulations of farmers in the 80s!

Thank you for checking this new project out, whether you are a long-time Co...

Seriously, why would anyone hate this movie? Even if you account for film buffs being horrified by Zhang Yimou’s apparent Hollywoodization, there’s so much in THE GREAT WALL that average audiences would enjoy. Lots of theories in this Real Talk segment, in addition to unabashed praise for the film — and regret for not having supported it when it first opened. Matt Damon’s daughter is wrong on this one!

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00:01:26 What happened?

00:02:12 Real Talk

00:51:37 The Future & Patreon Stuff

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You’re telling us the director of Hero and House of Flying Daggers made a movie where Matt Damon and Pedro Pascal team-up with the Chinese army to battle aliens at the Great Wall of China… and it somehow wasn’t a smashing success? Was it the man-bun? THE GREAT WALL sports a shameful 35% Tomatometer score, which means Alex & Julio must jump (er-dive) to its rescue. And you get to listen!

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00:01:24 The Great Wall

00:16:51 Contrarians Corner

- Wanna know how we really feel about THE GREAT WALL? Check out the Real T...

Happy Thanksgiving! We continue paying our Livestream For The Cure debt by sitting through EXORCIST II: THE HERETIC and chatting all throughout it. Will this be the lowest point of the franchise? Let’s hope so.

- Interested in more Contrarians goodness? Join THE CONTRARIANS SUPPLEMENTS on our Patreon Page! Deleted clips, extended plugs, bonus episodes free from the Tomatometer shackles… It’s everything a Contrarians devotee would want!

- Our YouTube page is live! Get some visual Contrarians delight with our Contrarians Warm-Ups and other fun videos!

- Contrarians Merch is finally here...

Yes, we eventually get into the inevitable Deckard/Replicant discussion. But there is so much more to talk about when it comes to BLADERUNNER - and with four of us on the panel, you know there will be some clashing opinions in this Real Talk segment! Ridley Scott would be proud (if he cared).

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00:01:26 Prodigal Son

00:01:54 Real Talk

01:15:54 The Future & Patreon Stuff

- Interested in more Contrarians goodness? Join THE CONTRARIANS SUPPLEMENTS on our Patreon Page! Deleted clips, extended plugs, bonus episodes free from the Tomatometer shackles… It’s ev...

Audiences had it right back in 1982: BLADERUNNER is a boring, confusing neo-noir featuring a barely-awake performance from Harrison Ford. But BLADERUNNER is also proof that if you keep recutting and re-releasing a film, you are likely to fool critics into thinking it was a masterpiece waiting to be discovered. Listen to Alex & Julio - and special guests Ryan & Rachel from Yum Yum Pod - as they navigate the rainy L.A. of an alternate 2019!

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00:01:24 Bladerunner: The Final Cut

00:15:28 Contrarians Corner

- Wanna know how we really feel about BLADERUNNER: THE...

We may have to wait a few decades for the tell-all Todd Phillips memoir that finally explains what led to JOKER: FOLIE A DEUX being, well, JOKER: FOLIE A DEUX. But it’s fun to speculate, even though it potentially being a genius prank doesn’t affect the experience of watching it as much as you’d think. Did we at least like it more than the original JOKER? Listen to this Real Talk segment and find out!

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00:01:26 Do you really care?

00:02:20 Real Talk

00:52:08 The Future & Patreon Stuff

- Inte...

We start Year Twelve of the Contrarians with a movie we never thought we’d cover (or watch) - but how can you escape one of the most infamous and puzzling bombs in recent history? Did people really not get how Todd Phillips used JOKER: FOLIE A DEUX to give Hollywood a much-needed middle finger? Did the joke go over critics and audiences’ heads? Listen to Alex & Julio discuss this masterful troll job!

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00:01:24 Joker: Folie a Deux

00:13:19 Contrarians Corner

- Wanna know how we really feel about JOKER: FOLIE A DEUX...

The fourth installment of Fresh Immigrants, Rotten Fascists focuses on the rise and fall of Lonesome Rhodes, as depicted in Elia Kazan’s A FACE IN THE CROWD. The story of a populist media superstar that grows to wield immense influence over the American public? How could that be relevant today? And yes, that’s America’s Grandpa Andy Griffith playing the maniacal Rhodes in his feature film debut.

Thank you for checking this new project out, whether you are a long-time Contrarians fan or someone who’s just trying to listen to people talking positively about immigran...

The 90s and their MTV Movie Awards were the focus of many episodes during our eleventh year as Contrarians - will they also dominate our annual awards ceremony? Listen to find out who gets Embries, Hooeys, Ruffalos, Gads, and The Lancaster Dodd Grant!

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00:01:24 The Embries 2025

00:12:20 Supporting Actress

00:26:02 Supporting Actor

00:40:40 The Ruffalo

00:47:46 The Lancaster Dodd Grant for the Development of White People Movies

00:55:07 Lead Actor

01:08:19 Lead Actress

01:18:57 The Gad / Anti-Gad

01:29:12 The Embry / Hooey

- Interested in more...

Happy Halloween! We hit our donations goal at this year’s Livestream For The Cure, which means we are now on the hook to do commentary tracks for all five Exorcist films. Can’t think of a better time to start than now, on Halloween day, so enjoy listening to us talk about William Friedkin’s horror classic - ideally while you watch it!

(Don’t worry, The Embries 2025 should drop this weekend)

Interested in more Contrarians goodness? Join THE CONTRARIANS SUPPLEMENTS on our Patreon Page! Deleted clips, extended plugs, bonus episodes free from the Tomatome...

All these years later, we know FREDDY’S DEAD was far from the “final nightmare”. Freddy went on to fight Jason Voorhees, be meta in New Nightmare, and get a grim makeover in 2010. But word on the street is Rachel Talalay’s Elm Street entry was meant to be the end of Freddy at the time. Does that context make it a better or worse movie? And can we ever come to terms with the darkness and campiness fighting to co-exist in this franchise?

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00:01:26 NES

00:02:10 Feedback!

00:09:20 Real Talk

00:56:20 The Futu...

Horror icons are not allowed to die - but that doesn’t mean they are not allowed to try. And so, Fred Krueger gave it a shot in the boldly titled FREDDY’S DEAD: THE FINAL NIGHTMARE. Predictably, critics panicked at the idea of a world without Elm Street terrors and stamped a 23% rotten Tomatometer score on Freddy’s efforts. Listen to Alex & Julio defend this surprisingly emotional (and sincere, at the time) farewell!

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00:01:24 Freddy’s Dead

00:12:38 Contrarians Corner

- Wanna know how we really feel about FREDDY’S DEAD: THE FINAL...

We will always do our best to celebrate big swings and original ideas - even when we can’t make heads or tails of them. So yes, we’re going to cut QUANTUM COWBOYS some slack even though some of our qualms from Contrarians Corner also stand in this Real Talk segment. But even when acknowledging the value of trying new things, we also have to analyze why a well-meaning effort doesn’t work. That’s why we’re all here, isn’t it?

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00:01:26 A Better Starting Point

00:02:16 Real Talk

00:54:11 The Future...

Take a hit of whatever your drug of choice is - that’s your best chance to grasp how QUANTUM COWBOYS scored 100% on the Tomatometer. Yes, universal acclaim is a little easier to attain when the review pool is shallow, but still, it’s weird when a nearly incomprehensible movie gets so much praise. Listen to Alex & Julio as they try to wrap their minds around a trippy plot and even trippier animation — and a lot of multiverse-related nonsense.

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00:01:24 Quantum Cowboys

00:12:38 Contrarians Corner

- Wanna know how we really feel about...

Well, it was The 80s, so maybe we were all a little easier to impress. With that in mind, how does CONAN THE BARBARIAN hold up in a world that’s been inundated with fantasy epics since its release? Can we spot what James Cameron might have seen in young Arnold Schwarzenegger back then? And will anyone think of the original Conan fans? That, and more, in this Real Talk segment!

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00:01:26 Always Passed By

00:02:22 Real Talk

00:54:46 The Future & Patreon Stuff

- Interested in more Contrarians goodness? Join THE CO...

There’s such a thing as Pre-Terminator Arnold Schwarzenegger and, oh boy, it’s a tough experience to sit through. Exhibit A? CONAN THE BARBARIAN, which was appreciated by critics and audiences enough to get a sequel, despite featuring a wooden performance from Arnie and excessive slow-mo that would make Zack Snyder proud. Listen to Alex & Julio marvel at the T-800’s humble beginnings!

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00:01:24 Conan The Barbarian

00:14:28 Contrarians Corner

- Wanna know how we really feel about CONAN THE BARBARIAN? Check out the Real Talk (RT) episode, on your feed RIGHT...

The third installment of Fresh Immigrants, Rotten Fascists focuses on The Sullivans - an Irish family trying to start anew in America. So, of course, the movie is called IN AMERICA! Directed by Jim Sheridan, with Oscar-nominated performances from Samantha Morton and Djimon Hounsou, it’s the kind of film that’s determined to make you cry, and that’s not necessarily a bad thing.

Thank you for checking this new project out, whether you are a long-time Contrarians fan or someone who’s just trying to listen to people talking positively about immigrants and negatively about fascism...

Is there still room in modern society for the man-child R-rated comedy? Can bros still be funny, or are they mostly cringe these days? Either way, it certainly helps your movie when you have a stacked cast, populated by incredibly charismatic performers poised to take over Hollywood. THAT AWKWARD MOMENT would triple its budget today, but it could also get a more charitable read from critics. Find out how we really feel about it in this Real Talk segment!

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00:01:26 Smart Enough

00:02:25 Real Talk

00:43:46 The Future & Patreon Stuff

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Ah, yes, that awkward moment when you find out one of the funniest R-rated romcoms of the new millennium is rotten on the Tomatometer. Joke’s on critics, however, as the cast of THAT AWKWARD MOMENT went on to be major power players in Hollywood, despite that 23% green splotch: Efron, Jordan, Teller, Poots, Davis, come on! Listen to Alex & Julio as they make a desperate plea for more movies about bad boys learning to be sensitive good boyfriends.

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00:01:24 That Awkward Moment

00:12:01 Contrarians Corner

- Wanna know how we really feel ab...

Here’s a bonus treat for you, Contrarians Listeners! As discussed at the end of our The Matrix episode, the Patreon After Hours for that recording is a two-parter. We’ve decided to make Part One, which deals with Rocky III and Alex’s conflicted feelings about Hulk Hogan, available on the show’s main feed. Enjoy!

And if you like this type of conversation, there’s plenty more on our Patreon channel - found at patreon.com/contrarianprime - including Part Two of this After Hours, which tackles our final MTV Banger of the Summer: the celebrated...

Come on. It’s CASABLANCA. Who doesn’t love Casablanca? Not The Contrarians! But actually, there are people in the darkest corners of Letterboxd who find it boring and reprehensible. So you know this Real Talk segment will start with a bit of a rant before we give in to a full lovefest!

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00:01:26 Bad timing

00:02:12 Real Talk

00:50:08 The Future & Patreon Stuff

- Interested in more Contrarians goodness? Join THE CONTRARIANS SUPPLEMENTS on our Patreon Page! Deleted clips, extended plugs, bonus episodes free from the Tomatometer shackles… It’s everythi...

You know why, as of this recording, CASABLANCA still doesn’t have a Criterion edition? Probably because The Powers That Be know that 99% Tomatometer score is a hollow accolade. The Rick/Ilsa/Lazlo love triangle was captivating back when we were in the throes of WW2 but, watching it today, it’s a silly distraction from serious international issues. Listen to Alex & Julio as they do their best not to sing La Marseillaise on this episode!

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00:01:24 Casablanca

00:08:00 Contrarians Corner

- Wanna know how we really feel about CASABLANCA? Check out the...

Are we ending The Summer of the (MTV) Bangers with a bang or with a whimper? The only way to answer that is by having a real discussion about BIG DADDY and reckoning with the different types of movies Adam Sandler makes and why some work for us better than others. Plus: Alex tells a Scuba Steve story that instantly becomes a Top Tier Contrarians Classic.

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00:01:26 Do you wear diapers?

00:01:40 Real Talk

00:53:37 The Future & Patreon Stuff

- Interested in more Contrarians goodness? Join THE CONTRARIANS SUPPLEMENTS on our...

What’s most irresistible than a 90s slacker finding his inner father figure and (sort of) adopting an orphan? Adam Sandler’s off-kilter take on Annie charmed audiences everywhere - even as it turned critics off. And so BIG DADDY’s 39% Tomatometer score is offset by Adam Sandler’s MTV Movie Awards win for Best Comedic Performance. Listen to Alex & Julio as they close The Summer of the (MTV) Bangers in style!

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00:01:24 Big Daddy

00:14:49 Contrarians Corner

- Wanna know how we really feel about BIG DADDY? Check out the Real Talk (RT...

The second installment of Fresh Immigrants, Rotten Fascists focuses on Adenoid Hynkel - the familiar looking authoritarian played by Charlie Chaplin in THE GREAT DICTATOR. Of course, there’s more to Chaplin’s masterpiece than Hynkle’s fascist antics, including a showstopper of an ending that remains as relevant today as it was in the middle of World War II.

Thank you for checking this new project out, whether you are a long-time Contrarians fan or someone who’s just trying to listen to people talking positively about immigrants and negatively about fascism. If you have any recommen...

We had our fun in Contrarians Corner, but anyone who has listened to the show for a while knows we hold The Matrix (and only The Matrix, no sequels) in high regard. So expect this Real Talk to be a bit of a lovefest, featuring personal stories while also failing to stop talking about where the franchise went and how it disappointed us. And yes, this movie did really well at the MTV Movie Awards!

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00:01:26 The Rabbit Hole

00:02:12 Real Talk

00:56:56 The Future & Patreon Stuff

- Interested in more...